How to improve steam room circulation and avoid cold feet 1

[ImproveSteamRoom]

Hi. The pool I go to has a very popular steam room, but they have just modified the design by filling in some holes in the side to prevent steam from scalding anyone sitting too close to the box. Now, the steam goes straight up from the corner box (which has a tray of some plants for smell) in a big cloud. However, it just hangs up at about chest height, slowly moving to lower levels, then someone opens the door and the heat gets dragged out. Obviously there is a problem with the circulation now. I have discussed it with the management there and we are trying to find a solution. Can the experts here give advice please? The room used to be much more evenly heated and much hotter.

Not being an engineer, myself, I am loathe to say too much but I would guess some type of perforated pipe coming from the side of the the tile walled box under bench 1. However, that raises 4 issues A. it would have to be enclosed in a wooden box with many holes, to prevent someone from touching the hot metal. B. would steam rise up to scald someone's bottom? C. What size pipe and holes and spacing/number would work? D. Is there enough air pressure for the steam to escape sideways or will it just keep going straight up?

Probably there is a complicated solution that I can't see, and I hope someone can figure this out. Thanks

 

[3DDave]

Hot, high humidity air is less dense than colder, drier air, so there is certainly going to be a tendency to get this.

If one is looking for a cheap fix, I don't think there will be one.

The cold floor could be managed by using a hot-water underfloor heating system. This would increase the temp without increasing the humidity. An alternative might be adding better insulation under the floor and to the walls to decrease the heat loss.

Adding a small area with a second door would limit the outflow of heated air and influx of cold air. This will require some floor space; they used to have a circular door for dark rooms that would allow only one side to be open at a time to ensure no light was unexpectedly let into the dark room; this had a floor space requirement not much larger than a swinging door requires.

Adding a circulation fan, like used in convection ovens, would even out the distribution, but then there is the question of whether people want to experience a breeze in the sauna.

Infrared lamps might also be used to provide direct heating of the occupants.

 

[Compositepro]

The box should be filled with rocks for thermal storage within the mass, and it needs to be lifted about two inches off the floor so that cold air at the floor can be drawn in to mix with the steam and rise through the rocks. Mixing the steam with cold air tempers the steam so that it is not scalding hot when it comes out of the box. It also removes the cold air lying stagnant on the floor. The heat stored in the rocks maintains the convection (circulation) of air through the box of rocks during periods when the steam is off, due to the thermostat on the wall of the sauna sensing that the set temperature has been reached. This prevents the stagnation of a layer of hot air over cold air within the sauna. If more humidity is desired, water can be poured onto the hot rocks.

 

[Snickster]

I have attached some details of typical steam room systems. The steam generator is placed outside of the room and a steam line is routed to the room where a steam distribution head is placed inside the room at 12" to 18" above the floor which directs the steam mostly in the downward direction. This allows the steam to hug the floor before it rises due to the fact that the hot steam existing the steam head is hotter than the cooler steam that previously entered the room. The steam head is place in a location away from the benches where people will be sitting and also away from doors. Now you have about the worse possible situation where the steam flow is directly up and stays up due to it being hotter than the previous steam that entered the room

This appears to be in general how your system is set up to locate the steam head in the far corner away from the doors and towards the floor. However this required the steam outlet head to be enclosed in a box so the steam would be prevented from directly impinging on the people sitting on the benches and directed upward. I guess during the installation or thereafter someone purposely put holes in the box to let some of the steam out at the lower levels near the floor while most of the steam still went out the top of the box. Then recently someone came along and plugged those holes for safety reasons.

You can put perforated pipes extending out of the box but there will be no pressure to push the steam into the pipes unless you fully or partially close off the top of the box which will allow enough pressure to build up in the box to force the steam into and out of the pipes. However you still will have an issue with the steam coming out of the slotted pipes directly at the feet of the people sitting on the bench.

I think that possibly you could connect to the existing steam pipe coming out of the wall and into the box with a tee connection and route two 3/4 piping lines down and along each bench wall (insulated for protection from burns) as you show in your sketch, and terminate the lines at the end of the benches, then you could install 3/4" x 1/2" reducer and steam distribution head shown on each line at 12" to 18" above the floor to properly distribute the flow at floor level. You may need to come up with some type of protective barrier to insure no one can mistakenly touch the steam distribution heads. or insulate over the heads except for the openings. You could even continue past the end of the benches past the corners and onto the next wall by a foot or so and install the steam heads there, this will provide better flow across the room away from the doors.

If you can give me information on the steam generator nameplate I can determine the design flowrate of the steam to check pipe sizes required and steam head for proper flow. However I don't anticipate there would be any issues with branching off to two 3/4" pipes with steam head placed at end of both.

 

[ImproveSteamRoom]

I have attached some details of typical steam room systems. The steam generator is placed outside of the room and a steam line is routed to the room where a steam distribution head is placed inside the room at 12" to 18" above the floor which directs the steam mostly in the downward direction. This allows the steam to hug the floor before it rises due to the fact that the hot steam existing the steam head is hotter than the cooler steam that previously entered the room. The steam head is place in a location away from the benches where people will be sitting and also away from doors. Now you have about the worse possible situation where the steam flow is directly up and stays up due to it being hotter than the previous steam that entered the room

This appears to be in general how your system is set up to locate the steam head in the far corner away from the doors and towards the floor. However this required the steam outlet head to be enclosed in a box so the steam would be prevented from directly impinging on the people sitting on the benches and directed upward. I guess during the installation or thereafter someone purposely put holes in the box to let some of the steam out at the lower levels near the floor while most of the steam still went out the top of the box. Then recently someone came along and plugged those holes for safety reasons.

You can put perforated pipes extending out of the box but there will be no pressure to push the steam into the pipes unless you fully or partially close off the top of the box which will allow enough pressure to build up in the box to force the steam into and out of the pipes. However you still will have an issue with the steam coming out of the slotted pipes directly at the feet of the people sitting on the bench.

I think that possibly you could connect to the existing steam pipe coming out of the wall and into the box with a tee connection and route two 3/4 piping lines down and along each bench wall (insulated for protection from burns) as you show in your sketch, and terminate the lines at the end of the benches, then you could install 3/4" x 1/2" reducer and steam distribution head shown on each line at 12" to 18" above the floor to properly distribute the flow at floor level. You may need to come up with some type of protective barrier to insure no one can mistakenly touch the steam distribution heads. or insulate over the heads except for the openings. You could even continue past the end of the benches past the corners and onto the next wall by a foot or so and install the steam heads there, this will provide better flow across the room away from the doors.

If you can give me information on the steam generator nameplate I can determine the design flowrate of the steam to check pipe sizes required and steam head for proper flow. However I don't anticipate there would be any issues with branching off to two 3/4" pipes with steam head placed at end of both.

Hi, thanks, yes you are right, we have the worst design at the moment, and whilst the past two posters gave great advice, none of that would suit our situation. We can't rip up the floor, or change the design of the room in any major way. The last two days there has been a slight improvement, the pool supervisor told me today he lowered the pressure and lengthened the output a few seconds, plus they covered half of the vent with a larger bag (containing herb type plant)-so the steam is coming out more slowly and spreading through different heights more effectively. Still not solved, but bearable now. We discussed:

A. Getting a perforated bag that could cover the whole opening to slow down the steam even more-and he is looking into that. The present very thick bag couldn't be used to cover the whole thing, no air would escape at all, bad.
B. The idea, as you say, of a pipe coming out of one side (the other side is half tiled in already)-but the remaining open half could also be done.
Juat a quick question-if it were in a slat sided wooden box, would that be enough to stop peoples legs, feet or bottoms from betting scalded?

But not along extra walls, just under the benches. They're receptive and practical people, but it is complicated for the issues you name. I will ask them details about the steam generator and existing steam pipe and get back to you.

Overall I think it's better now that the steam doesn't billow out the sides, today there were 5 people sitting down on the benches on each side=10, puls all the people standing up-so it's a popular thing especially for the old, but all ages, all day every day, 530am to 1130pm. Before could only fit 4. Hope we can improve the circulation isue more.

 

[LittleInch]

Why can't you close off the top of the box and instead drill a large hole in the box on two sides and put a large pipe under the benches to the end and then add an elbow / bend, point the steam output at the floor and just mark the end area as not to be used, or remove the wooden slats etc?