How usefull are SW training manuals? 2

[Solidmold]

As a SW tech support and training guy I notice that lot of trainees dislike the more advance classes. They say it's to much command/feature oriented and it doesn't give much strategies when dealing with machine design. Some optinions? What would a user prefer? Industry related training? Ideas?

Thanks

 

[Standing]

Solidmold,
Learning SolidWorks is different than learning machine design. You can be knowledgeable in SolidWorks, but be a poor designer. What I have seen in CAD today is that companies really are not guiding drafters to become designers. Someone red lines a drawing and gives it to a drafter and he or she will incorporate them into the drawing. The drafters (I have seen) very seldom understand why something was done a certain way. Nor do most of them care. The boss wants the drawing done fast. Or I hear, “I just want to get this done so I can go onto the next project”. Those who want to learn SolidWorks should take SolidWorks courses and those who want to learn machine design should take colleges classes or trade school classes to learn Machine Design. You also can learn Machine Design on the job.
Many drafters have told me and I quote, “I hate ECN’s”. I used ECN as a learning tool many years ago. When a hole’s tolerance changed, I wanted to know why. Doing ECN’s quickly gave me many answers to these questions. How many drafters today own a Machinery’s Handbook?
The bottom line: Typing a manuscript for an author makes you no more an author than modeling parts for an Engineer makes you an Engineer. Leaning to type does not make you an author and learning SolidWorks does not make you a drafter. You still need to know where to place dimension and tolerances.


Bradley

 

[MadMango]

Bradley, you are describing a situation that existed long before CAD ever came on the scene. My first job was on a drafting board while in high school. I was constatnly fed redlines to correct. It wasn't until about a year passed that I was given my first non-redline work to do (simple plot plans and electrical plans). But like you, I never blindly did redlines for the sake of doing them. I wanted to know why the redline was created, what inpact it would have, etc.

You touched upon the problem though, companies today think they can still have "drafting pools" with their CAD operators. Very few understand the fine line that exists between "pure drafting" and "design work" now involved when using any CAD program. CAD operators (not realy true drafters by my standards) today must understand the design they are modifying, what the best method of model modification is, and how their modifications will effect surrounding and associated models and design parameters.

These are hard things to learn from any book.

Ray Reynolds
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SBaugh]

Just to touch on true drafters MadMango. I'm not sure about other Colleges, but the College I went to we had to learn on the Board for both years but at the same time take a CAD class. The combination of CAD and doing it on the board gave as a understanding of how it works. I enjoyed the board work because of the challenge and just the enjoyment of it. But I don't miss the pain in my hand of holding the pencil all the time.

CAD made things easier for all of us. I would have to agree with you that most drafters are not true drafters unless they learn on a board. Starting out in CAD is not proper. If you don't understand how to think of what your building then what's the point?

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[Theophilus]

SW is so broad, it would be difficult to pin down specific areas in which to dig deep. I think the manuals for the advanced training do a good job in trying to cover a wide variety of items (I went through the advanced course with SW 97+, and have seen a SW 2001+ manual, too--but a lot has changed since then).

Perhaps the trainees are looking for advanced training for applying SW for their particular field? That would need to be done more on a one-on-one basis (or per company) to really achieve that sort of specificity. Otherwise, for the broad target, I think the training does a good job. SW should not attempt to teach machine design, but the principles involved in best bringing those designs to life via SW. Once the principles are understood, individual users can apply them within their specific field.




Jeff Mowry
Industrial Designhaus, LLC

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

 

[aamoroso]

Personally I feel that CAD of today and the future is fine tuned toward people that understand "how to make stuff". I have no college in the field but started out as a guy running a cutoff saw in a machine shop. I worked my up through the CNC department, into R&D and project management. I have worked in a broad range of manufacturing positions along the way and sitting down to make a part that can be manufactured comes easy to me. Alot of companies purchase software like Solidworks thinking that it is going to make the designers or draftsman better at what they do, but that only is true when they really understand what they are trying to do. The answer to your question is to find better students, sorry couldnt resist that one.

 

[Rocko]

Now i will add my 2 cents worth. I agree with Scott that the technique of learning the board then cad is a good route to go. You learn to think before you draw, ie who wants to erase a massive number of lines on drafting paper. This is the starting point of what an engineer and designer do not a drafting person per se. An engineer is concerned with functionality, costs, manufacturability of the product, failure analysis ect.. A designer is concerned with can i use off the shelf components to help the engineer meet the price point instead of the non standard spoke (or whatever) he chose. Can i make the engineers sketch more ergonomic, more consumer savvy. The drafter is basically given a sketch with the pertinent dimensions and told to duplicate for engineering prints or spec reason. The drafter will not overly think about the drawing and typically will not double check the engineers ideas unless the dims do not match up.