Hurricane Ties for TJI's 1

[BSVBD]

All common Simpson hurricane ties, such as H1, H2.5A, H3 are too tall to anchor TJI's to the bearing plate without installing unnecessary web stiffeners.

(2) 10d toe-nails each side of TJI will satisfy my lateral collector requirement, but, I hesitate to specify this due to the relatively small bottom chord of the TJI.

A TJI specifier's guide recommends (1) 8d each side, but, i need (2) 10d.

Any other hurricane tie or other suggestions?

Thank you!

 

[XR250]

Why use toenails when they can nail vertically thru the top of the flange?
I am not sure how you use a hurricane with a TJI and get any meaningful capacity.
It is rare that I use them for roof framing.
Maybe pre-drill the flange and run some screws down into the top plate?

 

[jayrod12]

The H4 or H5 would be damn close to working. Probably close enough if it were me.

But I do agree with XR, although If it's uplift you're concerned with, I'd likely be looking at screws over nails anyway.

 

[BSVBD]

XR... I agree with the vertical nails. I will spec it that way, BUT... is that REALLY the way it's going to happen? I'll design for the toe and specify the vertical.

jayrod... Thank you! Yes! Those WOULD have been options, but, the H4 & H5 are a discontinued product per Simpson C-C-2017, p. 11.

 

[jayrod12]

Ah ha... I don't yet have the new catalogue. I ordered it but it hasn't gotten here yet.

 

[dhengr]

BSVBD:
A couple thoughts, or a partial explanation.... The TJI people usually don’t like you nailing through the bot. flg. so close to the end, for flg. splitting reasons. The smaller toenails may be o.k. for a fairly small lateral loading, but the larger nails are more likely to cause splitting. Of course the new LVL flg. members are less prone to this splitting problem. “installing unnecessary web stiffeners” might not be so unnecessary from the TJI perspective. They don’t like you applying an uplift load (tension loading on the glue jnt.) on the bot. flg., particularly at the end, where there is a tendency for that load to unzip the flg./web glue joint. They would prefer that you get that load up into the web, by using blocking/stiffeners fixed to the web. Thus, the vert. screw are suspect too. I think you will find something in the TJI literature which says applying compressive loads through that glue jnt. is normal, and o.k., (i.e. floor load on top flg. or brg. loads at the ends), but tension loads, particularly on the (hung from) the bot. flg. should be carried past/around the bot. flg. up into blocking attached to the web material.

 

[XR250]

Wow, it is amazing how much extra effort is required to use a TJI in an ordinary simple situation. Why exactly do engineers like these?
I feel fortunate that most of my clients prefer dimensional lumber.

 

[jdgengineer]

We use TJI frequently. For floors I think they are great. For roofs I don't really use them and think they can be more difficult to work with than dimensional lumber, trusses, or LSL/LVL joists. I think it's generally a bit cumbersome to install hurricane ties, rafter tails, and sloped seat cuts with the TJI in roof conditions.

 

[BSVBD]

dh... Thank you for the valuable insight.

XR... you asked one question, followed by a "key" opposing statement.

"Why exactly do engineers like these?" - I did not imply that I like these.

"...my clients prefer..." <<<--- You "nailed" it here. I design per client preference, where possible. For whatever reason, "my" client preferred the TJI for the specific project in which I inquire.

 

[BSVBD]

jdg... I agree with the overall cumbersomeness.

I will specify web stiffeners and hurricane ties. Perhaps this may convince the client to use dimension or LVL.

Thank you all!

 

[XR250]

We use TJI frequently. For floors I think they are great.

I only use them for floors if it makes sense to do so due to the spans or other constraints that preclude using beams to break up the spans. I have not found any cost advantage over beams and dimensional lumber which the local framers prefer.
My biggest gripes with them are having to add stiffeners at point loads which is something that is usually left out. Even the bands require stiffener unless you use a 1 1/4" band. I also do not feel great about attaching a deck to those 1 1/8" OSB bands.

 

[jdgengineer]

XR250. Makes sense, but every market is different. In our market TJIs are highly favored due to perceived straightness of floor, spans available, and allowance for holes. We always use 1 3/4" LSL band joist with 2x6 exterior walls. Generally we do not have bearing loads on TJI joists. Our typically floor assembly is 11 7/8 or 14 joist framing due to relatively open floor plans.

 

[jayrod12]

Unfortunately TJIs are used frequently here too as they generally come in cheaper than trusses or lvl/lsl joists for the same span and loading conditions. (Cheaper in a material only sense).

We do not use them for roofs where possible, although there are situations where they are used for that as well. As BSVBD noted, a lot of times it isn't our call, we can make the recommendation against using them but the client has final say. If we don't bow to their wishes for material type then they'll go find someone who will.

 

[jdgengineer]

My biggest gripes with them are having to add stiffeners at point loads which is something that is usually left out.

As a side note, these are often not needed. Per ESR-1153 only required when point load exceeds 1500#.

As BSVBD noted, a lot of times it isn't our call, we can make the recommendation against using them but the client has final say. If we don't bow to their wishes for material type then they'll go find someone who will.

I'm thankfully we are rarely in this situation. Usually, we get to dictate the structural approach. We obviously take the builder's input in mind when they are onboard the project, but ultimately it's generally our call on what to use.

 

[BSVBD]

More often than not, I also have the luxury of a great relationship with our typical general contractor client to use something more practical and labor-efficient.

In this case, I can surely see convincing the contractor to using LVL's.

Thank you all for very valuable input!

 

[calvinandhobbes10]

TJIS on roof = flat roof on wood structure. This is uncommon. I've done it once before. Make sure your owner buys a roof with a legit warranty.

 

[XR250]

The last job I did, it was cheaper to use 2x10's and flush 8" I-beams. It also kept the architect happy as the floor to floor height was less.