I have been offered two jobs. I lik 1

[imolinar]

I have been offered two jobs. I like them both, I am looking at the big picture before deciding, but I need help. I did my bachelor's in Automation Engineering with Master's in Automation as well. The offers are:

- A World leader in Automation. 6 month training in Europe, they are just opening a branch in Canada, so the pay is not that good and no even benefits at least at the beginning, however they say things would change as soon as they get projects. The position is applications engineer, giving support to customers and working on projects. Close to home. I have to wait 2 months before starting working.
- A manufacturer of dies. The position is in R&D. Doing research and developing new machines and manufacturing processes using automation. The pay better, excellent benefits, 1-hour commute. I can start working right away.

Both jobs are long time opportunities.

Which position would be better??. I want a career in Automation of course, but in the long run and if I want to change jobs, which job would give me better experience?.

 

[buzzp]

The first one is slightly suspicious if it is a world class outfit starting a new branch but do not offer any bennies. Seems new branch or not, they should still have bennies. Its not like they have a whole lot of work to do to set it up. However, to me this sounds like better experience in the long run. It might prove to be more lucrative since you may move up the ladder quickly at a new branch. It might also mean more diverse experiences. Although, it sounds like there is more risk involved.
I recently had two offers as well. The other one would have been a better career move but was unstable (consulting firm). I decided on this job due to the benefits and job security although the other position had a signing bonus and 12% more annual wages.
I would have preferred only one offer. I had a difficult time deciding and some days I wonder if I made the right decision. No matter which one you take you will wonder if you made the right move.

 

[corus]

Any employer who tells you that things will change as soon as they get work, I'd avoid. If they dont get the work then you'll be the first out of the door. If they're promising you more money when things get better, don't believe it. The expression is often called 'jam tomorrow' which I think derives from being offered an empty sandwich with the promise that the filling comes later. It's the same as seeing a sign in a bar that says 'Free Beer Tomorrow'. Tomorrow never comes.
In R&D you'll be more likely to work on a variety of projects which will all help in gaining experience on different subjects. That could be more useful for the future.

corus

http://www.corusresearch.com

 

[pablo02]

I think most of us have faced similar decisions -- I tend to agree with buzzp's assessment...

my only suggestion to both you and buzzp is that once the decision is made (and some of them are gut wrenching, I've made a few myself), it's history -- don't look back (you made the best decision at the time with what you knew)... and move forward -- besides, circumstances change all the time

[if the decision results in not so desireable conditions which sometimes happen, then it's time for a new decision, a new challenge] as the saying goes, "we can't change history, we can only change the future" -- I think it makes life a little easier to live (and maybe we learned something as well)...

 

[TheTick]

re: job #1: I can see the low pay, but no bennies? Forget it!

 

[MintJulep]

Do not go for number 1 if all you are offered is vague and unspecific promises of what might happen in the future. If you want to continue considering #1, get specific, written guarantees of what will happen and when.

Low pay and no benefits is not a good combination, not even in Canada. What is their reason for not offering benefits? If they can't offer benefits, then the pay should be correspondingly higher so you can get insurance yourself.

From your brief descriptions, job #2 sounds like a better overall package.

 

[jsummerfield]

My older son is also a new grad EE looking for an entry level job. He is very interested in some optical/laser whizbang type jobs. He is less interested in jobs like mine in the oil and gas business.

We all need benefits. An older engineer (like me) just seeking medical insurance (major medical/hospitilization) for the family may spend over $650/month out-of-pocket. Most companies offer medical although some may pay only part and some may use high dedectibles to keep the cost down. Besides the government, there are still a few companies that still pay all of the cost. Do not expect totally paid benefits. Do expect some paid benefits.

Many temporary contract jobs lack benefits. They can also cancel the deal while you are driving to the site and expect that they could decide not to pay you for your time or expenses. Make sure that the deal is in writing.

I agree with the comment that this does not sound like a world leader in automation. This sounds more like a global marketplace leader at keeping labor cost down by hiring engineers with little experience, pumping them full of motivating stuff, paying little and cutting them when they are earning too much.

I would tell my son that companies hiring new grads need to spend money on training. A company skimping on the bucks might not pay for training. One should avoid changing jobs for at least three-years. A major multinational may provide the halo affect. Be sure that you are carrying a halo and not carrying a deadbeat company on your back.


John

 

[4tuna]

I was in a similar situation; however, it was not a "world leader" but a small firm with potential. I was disappointed that the pay was lower than I wanted and that there were no health benefits, but took option #1 because I was young, single, and healthy, confident in my abilities, and could afford to take more risk. We did get projects, and did them well, which led to more and more work. By the second year, we had excellent medical benefits and retirement plan (401k w/ employer match). Within 4 years, my base salary had almost doubled from my starting pay,I was the number 2 man in the office, and I got 50% of my base salary in bonuses that year. The experience I gained in such a responsible postion greatly accelerated my career, and I am eternally happy I made the choice I did.

Although that situation may not be typical, the bottom line is this: you must weigh the risk involved against the potential added benefits, consider your personal situation, and do what is right for you. Noone else can tell you for sure how it will go.

Perhaps an alternative might be to take #2, then revisit company #1 a year or two from now when they are a little more established.....if they are willing to hire you now, and do well in the interim, there should be no reason they won't be willing to hire you a year or two down the line.

 

[ietech]

World Leader??? --- no benefits - low wages - wait two months --- FREE BEER TOMORROW!!! Why is this decision a problem????

The only drawback to # 2 is the commute. It appears that you will still get some involvement with automation. If you take #2 and it becomes clear that this is truly a long term and secure position, move closer or telecommute a couple days a week if it is allowed.

I wouldn't even consider # 1.

 

[automationbabe]

I agree with buzzp, pablo02 and 4tuna.
Very tough decision, but I think its based on the person you are.
Option 1 could lead to everything that 4tuna mentioned...if you know what you're faced with and hit the ground running. But its always exciting, and looks good on a resume, to start at the bottom and make something that works...especially if you're up for the challenge.
On the other hand, depending on you situation (do you need bennies or not), it will be a difficult decision. You do what's best for you.
I've turned down jobs that offered at least 3X my asking because my life sanity level was worth more.
To each their own, and I wish you best of luck.

 

[arto]

3 things come to mind:
1-"Application Engineer" is oftentimes a person who sits at the phone & explains/picks from the catalog for customers. Probably not MS brainpower work - more like erector set

2-Working at a small company, you will do & learn more.

3- Take advantage of those auto loans for new graduates & buy that sports car so that your commute can be a "driving experience.

If you were to work @ 3@ for "3-5" years & get experience, you could go back to #1 [if they get up & running]. You would have 2 months more pay to spend , experience to dazzle them with & a nice car to drive ;-)

 

[ctopher]

Go with your first instinct. Only you will know whats best for you.