I just can't pass this darn exam!!! 4

[alwilliams]

I have now taken the PE exam twice and cannot pass it. The first time (Oct 2003) I got a 66 and the second time (Oct 2004) I got a 69. I feel like I am a pretty smart person and I've always done well on tests but this one is kicking my butt!! I feel like I have studied as hard as I can so I'm not sure what else to do. I don't utilize metallurgy very much at all in my daily work but I need this exam to get ahead in my career. I have a Materials Engineering ('98) degree and the only PE exam that I feel like I'd even come close to passing is the Metallurgy Exam. The fact that there is just about no review material out there for this exam does not help. I've spent months and months going through all kinds of reference material when most other types of engineers have one or two review books and sample questions/tests that they can take. The TMS example questions are not helpful at all in my opinion and are much much easier than the actual exam questions. I wish TMS would at least put new questions every year. They've had the same 52 or whatever questions for both times I took the exam. Does anyone have any suggestions on how else I can study? I'm really frustrated that I can't seem to pass this test.
Thanks!

 

[metengr]

I believe NCEES issues a diagnostic report for those who do not pass the exam. If I were you, I would go back and having recently taken the exam and knowing or remembering the types of questions, carefully review that report and focus on those areas of the exam that you did not perform well in. The report contains an itemized list of subject areas with the percent correct responses so you can get a feel for how well or poor you did.

Did you have all of the suggested reference material?

It is obvious that there is a strategy in taking and passing this exam. The key to passing the exam after having taken it is you need to remember the types of questions that you previously had and using the diagnostic report attempt to determine which questions you got wrong and find the answers.


Two friends of mine that are Metallurgical Engineers used this approach and they passed after taking the exam a second time. You need to be patient, have an intense study program about 2 months before the next exam, and work as many types of problems that you struggled with from the previous exam.

 

[alwilliams]

Thanks for your reply metengr. The problem is even though I have taken it twice I can't seem to remember the exam questions with which I had trouble. All I remember is that there were several I felt like were totally "out there" and not the type of questions the average metallurgist would know off the top of their head or even be able to find and work out in six minutes. I remember feeling like I could have spent 10 years studying and would not be able to answer some of the questions. When you say work as many problems as possible in the areas I had trouble, How??? There's no review material out there. No practice questions or exams that I can find (other than the TMS website). I want to work problems but I don't know where to start or where to find them. Any suggestions?

Also, regarding the diagnostic report that was provided with my test results, it is a joke. The report from the first time I took the exam is totally opposite from the second time. For example, the first time, I got 100% on Statistics (which means...oh wow... I got both of two questions right). This past October apparantly I got both questions wrong because I got 0% on my diag. report. This happened with several other topics as well. I got 80% and 100% on some topics the first time and 40% or lower this last time in the same topic. It just depends on what the questions are. All of the questions were totally different from the first to the second test.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of study program I should have this time. I obviously need to try something different.

Thanks again!

 

[metengr]

Some of the TMS recommended text books and reference material for the exam contain end of chapter problems. Have you reviewed these problems? I would pay particular attention to end of chapter problems in Dieters book, Hertzberg’s book, and the book on Transport Phenomena in Materials Processing.

When I prepared for the exam I had worked those problems, and I spent a lot of time working the internet to obtain similar homework problems in mechanical metallurgy, oxidation and diffusion kinetics, and fracture mechanics along with various exams in undergraduate and gradate metallurgy/materials science courses.

The information is out there to prepare and pass the exam.

 

[EdStainless]

Well I haven't taken the current version of the test, but I'll through a comment in anyway.
Test management. This is something that we got a lot of practice with in school, but has no application in the 'real world.' It is all that matters on a test like this.
The last big multiple choice test that I took I had to resort to making a lot of notes during the test. I went through it quickly, answered only questions that I knew, and marked the ones that thought that I could work out. After the first pass I went back to the marked ones and worked on them. Before I even took a shot at the remaining questions I checked all of the ones that I had answered.

If you find that you do well in a section one time and not another that sounds like minor slip-ups. These are the first areas that I would drill myself in.

How will a PE help your career? I have never seen anyone outside of consulting that cared. Most of us do it out of a sense of personal chalange. In the manufacturing world most bosses don't like being remineded that their engineers actually know what they are doing.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Corrosion never sleeps, but it can be managed.

http://www.trenttube.com/Trent/tech_form.htm

 

[CoryPad]

Can you give us your scores from both tests in each of the 6 major categories? For those unfamiliar with the categories, look here:

http://www.ncees.org/exams/professional/pe_metallurgical_exam_specs.pdf

Are you doing roughly equal in all categories, or did you do poorly in a few and well in others?

Category I (Application of General Knowledge) is not used by most practicing engineers and can be difficult. The five other categories are fundamental to Metallurgy and should be within the "comfort zone" of a person with a Materials Engineering degree.

Textbook problems should be helpful, so metengr's advice is sound. The ASM Handbook features prominently in the test, so you must be familiar with its contents.

Since the passing score is 70, you have been close both times. But, if you don't think you can do any better, maybe you are correct. The pass rate for this exam is only 65%, so it is difficult to pass.

Good luck with your future endeavors.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[49078]

It might help if you went to university materials eng pages and found some homework questions/solutions. That might help go over the basics, although the level of difficulty might be lower then the PE test.

Good luck

 

[alwilliams]

I appreciate all of your suggestions. One of my main problems is that I don't have the solutions manual to any of my books so I don't know if I'm right or wrong. Some of the books have even or odd answers but no worked out solutions so I don't know how they got the answer. I have about half of the TMS suggested reference books (unfortunately not Hertzburg's or the Transport Phenomena book) but I don't have any worked out solutions. I'm not sure I can afford to buy all of the suggested books and I'm having trouble finding them in the library.

Metenger, how did you know if you were right or wrong when you did the review problems in your reference books? Are there even solutions manuals out there for the TMS suggested books?

Thanks again!

 

[metengr]

alwilliams;
In my opinion, the Hertzberg and the Transport Phenomena books should be obtained as references. As CoryPad indicated, the Application of General Knowledge makes up about 22% of the exam, and is probably the most difficult component of the exam. The problems that are typical in this section consist of heat transfer, diffusion and oxidation kinetics. The Transport Phenomena book has relevant data and equations.

Hertzberg's book is equally important because some of the fracture mechanics, fatigue and creep related problems could be answered with this reference material. Do you at least have the ASM Handbook Desk Edition? This is an absolute must to pass this exam!!!!

All of these books can be obtained from various sources. Yes, it will cost money, but you have to decide how far you want to go with obtaining your PE. You have to invest your time and some money. Perhaps your company can pay for these resource materials if you can make the case that they are needed for your job.

There are web sites posted at universities that contain homework problems with solutions for materials engineering classes. Initially, I had used these sources and lecture notes to study from each week. After getting familiar with performing homework problems, I used the text book problems to supplement the information from the internet.

The key is to use these reference books to work out problems. This will provide you with knowing where vital information is located, and to aid with information recall during the exam.

Develop a rigorous sturdy schedule about 2 months prior to the exam. Select a different topic from the TMS study guide each week, and set aside several hours each night to work, work, work as many problems as you can. If you need help, perhaps you can contact one of the Met PE’s in your area or contact one of your professors to grade your sample problems.

Good Luck

 

[Maui]

Alwilliams, you should read the suggestions contained in the following link:

thread330-105929

I also took the Metallurgy PE exam in October 2004 and like you I was in a position where I didn't know exactly what to study. Metengr's suggestions were very helpful. I was not able to obtain all of the reference books that were suggested, and I found myself unable to completely review the ones that I did find. But I decided to put together a binder filled with what I felt was useful and pertinent data for the exam. Most of this data was not used directly, but filling this binder forced me to review the subjects that formed its contents. I actually studied for the exam for only two weeks. This was the first time that I sat for the PE exam, and I passed.

The critical aspects that I found on this exam were time management and having the necessary reference books at hand. As you are aware, you have only 6 minutes to answer each question, on average. So I was wary of spending too much time answering questions that were outside my area of expertise. I left these types of questions for last, and went through the exam and answered each question that I felt was within the limits of my ability. I didn't find very many that were easily answered. On my second run through the first 40 questions, I eliminated answers that I believed could be proven wrong, and used my reference books a great deal to try and decide on the correct choice. For the third round through the first half of the test, I simply made an educated guess. For random choices, I expected to get 25% of the answers right, since there were only 4 choices for each question.

I brought in two cardboard boxes filled with reference books, and realized during the first part of the test that I didn't have enough material. There was one question that still stands out in my mind that I could have easily answered, but was not able to because the reference books that I had brought did not have the appropriate diagram for selecting the answer. And it was something that could not be determined without the correct chart. So during the lunch break, I left the testing facility and drove to work and got three more reference books. It was a good thing that I did that, because one of those additional references was critical in answering a question or two on the second part of the exam. The second half of the test was in my opinion much more difficult than the morning session. When I walked out I honestly thought that I had failed it, but after reflection (and a few drinks) I realized that I did stand a chance of passing.

My strategy worked. The best advice that I got from any of the contributors in this forum is this: don't panic. If you get too flustered, just sit back and breathe. Use your references, and manage your time wisely. During the last 10 or 15 minutes, go through the remaining questions and make an educated guess at what you believe the answer should be. For random selections you should get 25% of them right. This approach worked for me, and I hope that it helps you as well. Good luck to you.

Maui

 

[jackpot]

I took and passed the metallurgy PE October 2003. Personally I thought that it was the hardest test that I ever took and I did not think that I passed. There was way too much transport theory stuff and thermodynamics which I have some sort of apptitude for (apparently). But I think that I passed because of the basics: like statistics (spc) and basic metallurgy.
Also I read the Metals Handbook desk edition from cover to cover, ugh! But there was alot of information on the test from it and I think it helped. Also, I agree with the others about the Transport Phenomena book. I know a person that took the test twice and got two 69's and then gave up. It sounds like with some additional tools you can pass it.
One more thing in testmanship; examine the answers as well as the questions. Look at the units on the answers. Sometimes, some of the answers can be elimnated because the units are wrong. Then, if you have to make an educated guess you can increase your chances of being right.

Don't give up,

Jack

 

[TLA]

alwilliams,

I took the exam in CA, Oct. 2004 and passed. This was my first go around, and found the study questions unrepresentative of the test, as you did. I feel very fortunate to have had a study partner and I am convinced it was a major reason for our passing. There were 6 people who took the exam in CA, 3 passed, my study partner and I were 2 of the 3.

As for study, we spent 2 or 3 nights per week, 3 hours per session, for 3 months prior to the exam. In addition, I studied 3-6 hours on the weekend on my own, finding solutions to problems neither of us knew off hand. We met at his work, where we set up a projector connected to a laptop and worked the TMS study problems plus whatever other problems we could find on the web (including EIT problems). We did not do a lot of the problems from the reference material for the reasons you stated, but wish I had done more, it would have helped.

We also used a site called the Way Back Machine (

http://www.archive.org).

Type in the URL of where the TMS study guide is, and you find past TMS study guides, to give you another 50-100 questions to work. We took proliferous notes, and "bookmarked" our reference material like crazy. Know the Metals Handbook backward and forward, so you can use it quickly. Follow everyones advice above, it's on the mark, and don't give up. You are serious about this, it is worth doing it until you've passed.

-Tim