I need career insights... please 10

[Sigma47]

Hello all,

I am an undergrad in the CivE dept. at UMN and I am currently weighing the decision of becoming a structural engineer versus an environmental engineer.

My specific questions are:

1.) is there a "green" field or application of structural engineering?

2.) are either of these careers more prone to outside work than the other?

3.)which of these fields is expected to grow more in coming years?

4.)what are the duties/worklife of an entry level structural/environmental engineer?

I am curious to know what the daily work life of these professions entail. I am intrigued by both fields and am at a point when I should decide. I am leaning towards a structural emphasis but would like to be able to incorporate environmental principles to it. However, I feel that I will have the opportunity to be outside more in the environmental field, something that is very important as well. My summer internship has had me at a desktop for 40 hrs a week and I realise that I like fresh air a lot and would like a job that wasn't completely confined to the office.

Your insights are much appreciated,

Jay

 

[BelspringKen]

I have been on the fringes of enviro, doing mostly development work. Enviro. depts. in firms often do some utilities, with some people doing permitting in enviro.
Many of the enviro. types I have worked with get outside a lot.

I don't know what kind of "green" things you can get into with structural, but there is a certification called
LEED(S) that architects, landscape architects, and some engineers that work with building design can get. As far as I can tell, the LEED program is all about roof gardens, using rainwater to flush toilets, and that sort of thing.
Its a green buildings program.

I don't know all the ins and outs of the LEED thing, but if you could get that certification, you get into making some buildings "greener", which should be a growing market.

 

[eric1037]

I guess it depends on what you consider to be environmental engineering. One concept of environmental engineering is an offshoot of civil engineering that involves water and wastewater treatment, stormwater, hydrology, etc.

Another concept of environmental engineering involves working with contaminated or potentially contaminated sites. Be careful with pigeonholing yourself on this side of things. I don't want to discourage you, but the job market for this type environmental engineering is often regulatory-driven. Therefore, it depends on which way the political wind blows.

If you like to get outside alot, consider geotechnical engineering. It has elements of both structural and environmental engineering and overlaps both.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Go structural!

 

[francesca]

As an entry-level structural engineer, unless you choose your employer carefully, you could get bogged down in structural detailing in CAD, whereas that is unlikely to occur in environmental. Once you graduate past the CAD monkey stages in structures, expect a lot of calculations, with or without software to do the hard yards. Are you sick of bending moment diagrams yet? Do you like wading through codes? Unfortunately the "environmental" side of structural engineering usually falls to the architects: air circulation, materials selection, pitch of roof, etc.

You're misled if you think that "environmental engineering" = "green engineering." As mentioned above, there's the hydraulics/hydrology side, the waste water treatment side and the environmental clean-up side. In the former, you'll do a lot of calculations using software. You could do flood plain modeling or design dams (not that many more of those get built these days). If waste water treatment is your game, then you need to be a chemistry buff as it's all thermodynamics and reaction equations, alkalinities and a bunch of other stuff I learned six months ago and have successfully repressed. Environmental site clean-up involves both chemical clean-up (spills into soil and ground water) and nuclear clean-up. It's a very specialized field.

If you want to be out doors a lot then you should consider a career in construction, rather than consulting, in which case structural would probably be a better way to go. As an engineer in a construction firm, your job would be on bidding and checking plans, as well as resolving on-site issues and scheduling. You'll get to use your brain a lot more on a structures site than you would say in a road construction project. If the sound of jack hammers and concrete trucks isn't your game, but rather stomping through virgin ground, then consider becoming a Registered Land Surveyor.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

excuse me, but I happen to really like bending moment diagrams and wading through codes.

THAT is why I like being a structural engineer.

 

[JasonG]

Fransesca described it well so I won't bother with my own explanation of the job descriptions.

You don't necessarily need to be tied to one or the other field for the rest of your life. Both areas are covered by a civil stamp. So you could work at a small civil engineering company that will let you do both structural and env. work. I'm a Civil PE with an env. education. I've been fortunate enough to dabble in bsic structural work, drainage work, geotechnical work, septic system design, etc. in addition to my core responsibility as an env. engineer.

Any field of engineering could land you behind a desk or out in the field. Your work env. is determined by your job description, not your degree.

 

[francesca]

Don't get me wrong; I'm very glad that there are people like you Dave! It means I don't have to do it.

 

[greenone]

Actually, you can combine construction and environmental by working for a remediation contractor. Get to be outside a lot (sometimes in white suits )
Entry level environmentals, at a consulting firm, will spend a fair amount of time doing low level work like water and soil sampling.

 

[Sigma47]

Thanks for every one's input thus far!!! I really appreciate it. I don't have too many practicing engineers that I am acquainted with so anything here helps. I have always had an interest with infrastructure and buildings and such... played a lot of sim city as a kid and could recite alot of stats on buildings in places I'd never been, but never actually knew a CivE or many people who had graduated from college for that matter. God Bless my backwoods mid-western town.

Anyway, being as everyone is so helpful, I also, would like to know what the benefits of going to grad school are. Will my salary increase that much or would two years of experience be more useful? I know this is stuff I should be able to get from an advisor, but I think UMN has implemented an assembly line model for the college experience and I get sarcasm and scoffs when I address these issues to my counsel. So, If anyone has some experience in any case please let me know.

Also, Viking if you wouldn't mind telling me why you love structural so much and what types of projects you get to work on that would be sweet.

grazie

 

[DaveVikingPE]

It all started when I was kid and wanted to do little else than build models of things. Structural is a natural extension of that for me. The calculations and computerized drawings are just like building models - only I get paid for it.

I work on low-rise vertical structures (buildings - industrial and residential), port and harbor structures, flood control structures and anything in between.

 

[graybeach]

Hi Sigma47,
Structural engineer is something I feel in by bones, and I have no desire to change. But I must say, the environmental side has its attractions. At my company, the environmental people are a diverse and interesting bunch. Besides engineers, they have planners, meteorologists, economists, arborists, and more. Basically they are the "cool people" among the rest of us nerds. Mainly they do transportation planning studies, historical preservation and Environmental Impact Statements.

There is so much to the environmental work, and it takes a lot of political savvy not to screw things up in a big way. I always tell my environmental friends there that I have it so much easier than they do because, in structural engineering, there is usually a right or wrong answer. In their world, they go up against community groups, politicians and the like.

As for grad school, I do not see it making much difference in pay, at least not directly. On the other hand, I see it as a requirement for employment more and more. For me, getting my masters degree was invaluable. Not only did I get a deeper understanding of structural theory, my writing skills improved greatly from all the papers I had to write. Knowing how to write gives a structural engineer many more opportunities, especially to be a leader. For an environmental engineer doing the work described above, good writing skills are an absolute must.

Good luck to you!

 

[francesca]

I'm a grad student in a top-50 Engineering school in TN. I had 6 years work experience after my undergrad, mostly in transport planning. I haven't learned a thing in the year I've been in grad school. That said, I did twice as many (if not more) engineering credits in my foreign undergrad, which may have a lot to do with it.

Having a foreign bachelor's degree, I see a masters degree from a US school as essential to being taken seriously in the US. (And if I can scramble the exam fee, I'll be taking the PE in October, which will also help.)

One of my office mates has a non-engineering undergrad and got his PhD in Environmental Engineering in May. He still hasn't found a job, and the salaries he's looking at are $50k and below.

Even if you get a scholarship/assistantship for grad school, it's a serious financial undertaking. You need to be certain that it's the field for you before you enroll. If you want to do a thesis-based Masters, then please make certain that your research desires align with those of the professors. Unless you're passionately committed to the same research as they are, you're going to have a hard time getting any help, in my experience.

 

[nutbutter]

Just to give you some more info about being outside. You could probably expect A LOT of outside field work as an entry-level environmental engineer. I started in environmental remediation and I was outside probably 90% for the first 2 years. Upon year 3, I was 50/50 in the office and outside. After doing a year of office work for remediation jobs, I quit because the office work was EXTREMELY BORING (making tables, checking action levels, etc.). I think after about 3-4 years, even in an environmental consulting job, you'll be in the office a large majority of the time. All the outside/field work is usually left to entry-level people because they are cheaper and the work requires less thought. When you have 3-4 years experience, you'll know a bit more about how the process works and you'll be more valuable in the office, as you'll command a higher billing rate.

Be careful though, as someone mentioned it above it's very easy to get pigeon-holed in the environmental rememdiation field. I was doing air-monitoring for MGP (Manufactured Gas Plant) clean-ups. That's it for 3 years. I got out at the right time and now work at a land development firm where I get BROAD experience.

Anyway, the geotech idea is a very good one as well. I'd either go geotech or structural and try to work at a construction firm where you can work your way up to being a construction manager/site engineer.

I believe Francesca made a valid point. If you want to be outside for the duration of your career then you should get into construction engineering. A lot of big consulting firms hire engineers as construction managers. In that position, you'll travel from site to site and get to be onsite coordinating construction. This is probably your best bet at spending a lot of time outside for the long-haul. You could go structural and I'm sure that you'd have no problem getting into a construction management position.

As far as grad school goes you'll definitely increase your salary substantially, however, you can most likely kiss your time outside of the office goodbye. Once again, with a grad degree, you'll be more specialized and you'll command a higher billing rate. Field work is usually relatively simple and can often be done by technicians. There's no way they'll be sending someone with a Masters into the field on a regular basis. I'm sure it happens occasionally, but it's the exception more than the norm. I guess if you're in some highly specialized field, such as desing and construction of wastewater plants, then you could possibly be on the job during construction, but who knows.

Peace,
Stoddardvilla

 

[petrosoft]

Here in California, there is a lot of work for structural engineers doing "green building designs". These involve strawbale and other methods most structural companies won't touch. So, you can make a nitch for yourself in a small business doing structural work for builders and architects. That's a chunck of what I have done. The other part is soils engineering. I got a masters in environmental and then found that I hated the burocracy. I didn't want to work for a big company either. Civil/structural as a small business is a blast with a lot of diversity and interesting clients.

 

[LHA]

graybeach (Structural) makes two interesting points. Both get to the crux of what you are really looking for. Note Gray is, by self-definition, Structural. I work civil, most land development, lots of environmental as well.

1) Gray: "...in structural engineering, there is usually a right or wrong answer. In their world, they go up against community groups, politicians and the like."

lha: I work in a A/E firm. What I do is worlds apart from what the Arch's and Structural Eng's do; I feel I am very competent at what I do, and would probably stink at what the Arch's and Struct's do. It depends which of the two very accurate descriptions Gray offered you are best.

2) Gray: ”As for grad school, I do not see it making much difference in pay, at least not directly. On the other hand, I see it as a requirement for employment more and more."

lha: I see absolutely no monetary or placement advantage on my side of things to getting a Masters, or a Doctorate. I have never seen evidence of anyone getting a job due to having either, nor evidence of anyone being denied a position without one.

Good luck


Engineering is the practice of the art of science - Steve

 

[Ingy]

Sigma47,

Consider working with a general contractor that does general engineering work. You have to look around a lot, but there are some out there that put a great value on engineering skills. Almost all of the project managers at my company are professional engineers, including myself. We have all worked for contractors and do more than enough engineering to sit for the PE exam. For our work structural, geotechnical, or mechanical are the most applicable. Our entry level engineers spend about 75% of their time outside with the craft labor so they get to really see how things are done. It's great experience to design some falsework then have to deal personally with the foreman that has to build it. The accountability is a great teacher. You'll only get that with a direct hire contractor, not a CM firm or a general building contractor that subs all the work.

However, the hours are long; 11 to 12 hours a day, but the pay is much better than the design side.

On the design side I would echo those that recommend environmental or geotechnical.

As for graduate school. I think you'll find that it won't have any impact on your salary right out of school, or your career at first. I think the payback is in the long term. The opportunities will come later in your career because of the education. I will say, though, what I tell the interns working for us, that you should work a few years before going to graduate school if you want to get anything out of it.

 

[GRANITE80]

I was interested in environmental engineering but majored in General Civil to keep my options open and am very glad I did (I now work in small business).

If you look hard and are willing to take a few risks, you can probably find something that interests you in structural engineering. Every field has a place for some engineers who think outside the box, although it may not be recognized if you accept any entry-level offer that comes your way. LEED is becoming huge on the West Coast and I see the opportunites in that area being significant. Other possibilities include working for the Forest Service, BLM, or other out-doorsey agency. (I did this during college and had weekly trips to our project sites at campgrounds and lakes throughout the west)

However, I must add that I know many SE's spending 40 hrs/week indoors at a desk. (a friend of mine has designed tilt-up walls every hour of the day for 3 years)
That being said, Environmental Engineering can lead you to some boring mundane desk jobs as well in MY opinion (designing one part of a waste water treatment plant day in and day out).

My advice, go with your gut! Don't be afraid to change jobs or locations if you know it isn't working. Sure, some days will be tough, but work should be an enjoyable and fulfilling part of our lives!