I need some advice... 1

[TheMasterMechanic]

I started my college career at a Community College, where I fell in love with 3D modeling. When I got accepted to Penn State Erie, I chose MET since it was more application based with the 3D modeling and computer simulation that I loved. All was well and good until I was a senior. I was told at a career fair that I didn’t have the math background to apply for a job in engineering for a large local company. I was discouraged but I graduated with the BSMET degree and obtained a good job. But since I have been working it seems like many people think MET’s are incompetent and I feel that there would be more opportunities for me if I had a BSME. I also failed the FE/EIT exam (scored a 67 my junior year with no studying). I started back to school a couple years ago taking Calc and Calc based Physics in the evenings thinking it would help with the EIT/FE exam. I feel that taking Engineering Physics 1 and 2 has helped me to prepare for the EIT/FE exam and after a review course that starts in a few weeks, I plan on taking the EIT/FE exam again this spring.

Since I have done pretty well in all the classes I have taken, I have decided that I want to continue on with my education. I thought about going back to school for a regular BSME degree, but when I started inquiring about BSME degrees at some local colleges, they all pretty much said the same thing. “Look and see what type of Master’s Degree you can get”. I contacted several schools about their MSME programs, and some of them said that I could take a hand full of undergraduate engineering classes (4-6 depending on what graduate courses I wanted) and then apply for admissions. Obviously, this would be much easier than getting another entire bachelor’s degree. I also heard that there is a movement to require an individual to have a master’s degree or additional 30 credits in their engineering field to sit for the PE Exam in 2015. It seems to me like getting a MSME is going to be a necessity in my lifetime (I’m 27). I feel it would make more sense to take the handful of courses and get the MSME. I read the other BSMET vs. BSME threads and no one mentioned a BSMET getting a MSME. So what do you guys think? Do you think even with the MSME there would still be some “closed doors” because of my BSMET? Also, one of the schools that I talked to about their MSME (Villanova) offers the courses online. What is the general opinion of online MSME degrees these days?

I really appreciate any advice you guys could give me.

Thanks!

 

[HgTX]

If you want to get licensed, your BSMET may be a problem.

Most master's programs are not ABET accredited, so if you have neither a BS nor MS from an ABET-accredited engineering program, some states will give you trouble for licensure.

Hg


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[KENAT]

If you're really into CAD and that's what you mostly want to do you may be wasting your time (& money) worrying about getting BSME or Masters or even EIT/PE.

Drafting including much 3D cad isn't regarded as hard core engineering by many. So you probably have all the academic qualifications you need to be able to get jobs doing that in most places. If you want to expand more into hard core engineering and get PE then studying makes sense, just take care on the ABET issue.

I seem to recall a thread about someone with a tech degree trying to get PE or something, maybe you found it already.

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[purdue87]

i hold a BSMET. then got a MSME (went back and took a few math classes). and also have a PE.

i went your option 2 route. the MSME certainly makes me comfortable with all math that i see. not so with my BSMET. i didn't need the MSME for the PE.



Thanks,
Scott

 

[TheMasterMechanic]

Thanks for the Replys everyone...

I know ABET certifications are important. I was reading the proposed bilaws for NCEES and they state that by 2020 in order to sit for the PE you have to have a BS in engineering plus a combination of 30 upper level undergraduate and graduate courses, OR a masters degree in your field from a school offering ABET accredited engineering degrees. I read on here that ABET only accredites one degree per discipline from each school and I guess most schools go for their ABET in their undergrad programs. That is what I have observed, so I believe it to be correct.

 

[p14175]

I share your concerns. I have BSMfgET, but I also have a BS Math. I am preparing for graduate school. My focus is to study automation and robotics. I have been looking at the MSMET program for two reasons (1) I can't afford to move so I am stuck with the local university and (2) the university's only automation program is in the Engineering Technology department. Automation is traditionally in the Electrical Engineering domain so I am leary about how this will all work out.

 

[TheTick]

read on here that ABET only accredites one degree per discipline from each school and I guess most schools go for their ABET in their undergrad programs

Not true. This from ABET's own listings, which I checked last time this subject came up. The one-accreditation-per-discipline is due to schools' choices w.r.t. what to accredit.

 

[mechengdude]

I have a BSMET. You will find some doors closed due to the MET. On the flip side there are still plenty of opportunities depending on what you want to do. I have held positions working for the largest defense contractor in the US all the way down to smaller companies with fifty or so people. I did have one instance where the MET was an issue when I interviewed with GE aircraft engines. They didn’t like that.

Long story short, go for the master's ..good luck.

 

[ShaggyPE]

A side note regarding the NCEES issue and the requirement for the Masters degree. The individual states determine what the requirement is to license a person. They regard the NCEES stance as a recommendation, albeit a very high recommendation, but a recommendation nonetheless. It will probably come to place... but probably after 2015.

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional
Certified COSMOSWorks Designer Specialist
Certified SolidWorks Advanced Sheet Metal Specialist

 

[Noway2]

You will likely find that over time, the fact that you have a BSMET as opposed to a BSME becomes less and less important. In my opinion, the advice to go for the masters degree rather than a second bachelors degree is the better choice that will pay off better. I am not in a mechanical discipline, but if it is anything like the electrical, it is a very small percentage of the work that requires a PE certification. If the same holds true in your discipline, getting the masters degree would likely open more doors for you, in terms of raw numbers, than the certification.

Also, both from personal experience and from what others have said, getting your advanced degree is a very rewarding experience and it is a very different experience than getting a bachelors degree. I think there are a lot of reasons for this, including: you are older, you want to be there and are there by choice, you are closer to the professors in both age and experience.

 

[MartinSr00]

As a BSME, I've watched people with Technology degrees over my career and seen (1) that they are often regarded as second class citizens, and (2) they tend to think more practically as opposed to theoretically especially following graduation and (3) most regard Tech programs as less rigorous. I see that as a common perception. Facts often have a hard time when colliding with perception.

If I had a BSMET (or a BSME), I would go for the MSME after working for at least a couple of years. When employers find that out about a masters, it's like your BS degree has a cloaking device applied to it, it's assumed to be totally in order and subordinate to your MSME no matter what the BS degree is in. I've seen PhD's in Engineering that were my professors that had BS degrees in Physics, a totally different field. You found this out only if you got to know them and ask them. Otherwise, they were engineers.

If you took the MSME, you would become changed. I did. It changes the way you view the world for the better. I got mine after being out of school 20 years, and a very good career got even better thereafter. The MSME was good for both my pocketbook and my brain.

 

[Noway2]

At the school I went to, the only real difference in the curriculum (in the elecrical field at least) between the EE and the EET degrees was that the EE spent the first couple years focusing on taking actual calculus, physics, and chemistry classes as oppose to math classes geared towards the program. While these "hard sciences" may help to pass an exam like the EIT, it comes at the price of being more skilled in your core discipline.

Aside from that to say that the the EET program was inferior, as was frequently assumed, was simply incorrect. Both programs had many of the same teachers, both programs had many classes on the same subjects and both programs used the many of same text books. As an example of one difference, the EE program, which had one controls class had us 'model' a cassette tape mechanism and analyze it on paper and then design a paper model of a compensator. In the EET program, the students got an actual motor with a damper and inertial mass, hooked it up to a device that plotted the speed / position, had to apply the Laplace s-equations to develop a compensator, show on paper using the same techniques show that it was stable, and then actually demonstrate that it worked. I think the EE students got cheated.

 

[TheTick]

While these "hard sciences" may help to pass an exam like the EIT, it comes at the price of being more skilled in your core discipline.

Physics is not a core discipline? It's the foundation of most of what we do. I get tired of explaining high school science to college-educated professionals.

 

[MartinSr00]

What many are saying is, in effect, the tech programs tend towards the concrete. the classical programs tend more toward the abstract.

We could argue in any given instance which quality (the ability to do, or the ability to conceptualize) was better. In the long run, however, those that can better think abstractly will probably end up better off. It just appears that the world works that way -- no matter how well somone may argue the injustice or wrong-headedness of it all.

I think it comes down to being educated vs. being schooled. In colleges they attempt to educate you. In reality, they school you. The education part comes as you learn the lessons, take what is concrete and abstract, and meld it inside your brain into wisdom.

 

[imcjoek]

I also have a BSMET. Only because when I started out, I simply didn't know there was a difference in the programs, otherwise I'd have gone BSME.

Having worked with those in the BSME program, however, I wouldn't say that I've missed out on much. Half these guys cant engineer their way out of a wet paper bag. It's unfortunate that the "T" is looked down on, but I suppose all tech programs are not created equal and thus some may have reason to be trod upon.

I have found that those who do the hiring often don't even know what the "T" means, giving you a chance to explain the pro's of "2 more classes of hands on" vs "2 more classes of calculus 18".

In summary... uh. Get the masters and more importantly, some good solid work experience. Then you have the best of both.

 

[IRstuff]

Yes, even in a strict EE major, you could get out without so much as touching an oscilloscope, but even in the "hands-on" courses, there were a panoply of project choices that didn't necessarily require heavy-duty lab work.

Technology degrees weren't offered when I went to school, but I agree that there is a bias, not unlike picking a CMU grad over an SF State grad. There's often insufficient time to delve in-depth on interviews, so you go by general impressions, and pedigree. Given a lack of anything definitive, an ME is chosen over MET, an EE is chosen over EET.

So, from that perspective, you have to pick the trappings that will give you sufficient bonafides, without having anything more than your resume before them. That is, unfortunately, the way of the world.

Oh, when you do get an interview, wearing platform shoes, neat hair, and nice suit and tie will also buy you unwritten brownie points.

TTFN

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[MartinSr00]

The career world unfortunately has "entry-tickets". In most of the companies I have worked for, it was a BS degree. My current position at my company requires a PE, even though in 18 years I've stamped exactly 1 set of drawings. In my whole career, 2 sets. But I would be demoted immediately and my salary would drop 30% if I let my PE ticket lapse.

We had a Civil PE fellow that didn't have a bachelor's degree. He hit a glass ceiling at a first line manager.

I've seen non-degreed engineers with capability levels that exceeded many of the degreed ones. It didn't matter -- they were considered second class citizens and couldn't be promoted beyond certain levels.

Yes, it's a waste of money and human potential. But organizations can work like that.