"I need you to certify this..." 4

[ANE91]

Owner built a 100ft x 100ft pole barn out of wood, sans permit. Clear-span trusses reportedly designed/sealed by the manufacturer. No engineering for the rest of the building. County found out, and now the owner needs the beams/columns/footings checked to the County's satisfaction. I told the owner that I'd need to dig pits and also check the truss design, but the owner wouldn't pay for all that, so we parted amicably. Apparently the owner knows engineers who didn't need all that; I was just the closest one.

Would you have signed off on the rest of the building (if it calc'd out) without considering the trusses? Was I too paranoid? What would you have done?

P.S. I didn't know trusses that big could be shipped/erected. Perhaps they were split at the ridge...

 

[jerseyshore]

Whenever I hear the comment that something is "over engineered", always by a non-engineer, BTW, my response is "Every building standing today is over engineered".

My response is "better than under engineered".

There must be someone out there who has perfectly engineered a building. Right in that sweet spot. Must feel like Christmas morning.

Oh well, guess I'll just be the PITA over engineered guy.

 

[SWComposites]

when you all hear the "over engineered" comment, just show them the photo of the "under engineered" pool wall from the other recent thread.

 

[gte447f]

Apparently the owner knows engineers who didn't need all that; I was just the closest one.

This part always cracks me up. They claim to have better options, but for some reason they are calling me. OK, yeah right. We all know the real reason is that they are calling anyone and everyone that they can think of until they find someone who will do what they want and what they think they need for as little $$ as possible.

 

[WinelandV]

There must be someone out there who has perfectly engineered a building. Right in that sweet spot. Must feel like Christmas morning.

The problem: You can't tell the difference between "perfectly engineered" and "over-engineered".

"Perfectly Engineered" should now be the go-to retort to claims of over-engineered.

 

[phamENG]

Approximation of structural engineering fee vs. level of engineering, with the dashed line being "Perfectly Engineered":

 

[BAretired]

You were wise to reject the project.

Another little trick some farmers have been known to do is to get a design from the truss fabricator for the snow load, then without telling them, hanging a cattle feeder from the midspan of the trusses for the full width of the barn. The roof may be adequate to carry the feeder in summer, but with the first major snowfall, down she comes.

 

[Smoulder]

"I always say that buildings don't fall down...until they do"

Yep. I bring up Hyatt Regency. Stood for a year with something like half capacity. What if 75%? Might still be there today ticking down to disaster but with dozens copies of "successful" design at other hotels.

 

[LittleInch]

What I really meant was that for many people, especially owners or people who build them not using an engineered design ( my guess is most of them), the fact that some are still standing after decades shows to them that they "work". You are all correct though that no one picks out the ones that rotted, fell down in a wind, burnt down, have a distinct lean to them etc.

Definitely wise though to swerve this one by the sounds of it.

 

[JAE]

There's a big difference between

a structure that "works"....i.e. still remains standing after decades.
AND
a structure that has been designed to supply a measure of statistical safety against the variability of all applied loads.

As others have said - a structure that remains standing after decades may stand there appearing to disdain the idea of engineering.
But engineers are mandated to do the second and have a difficult task defending an invisible statistical risk.

 

[JStephen]

From a Facebook group I'm a part of. The "high winds" were 40-50 mph, windy for sure, but not a hurricane, either. "This big barn...didn't used to have a hole in it. I think this happened with the high winds Monday or maybe Tuesday morning."

 

[ANE91]

From a Facebook group I'm a part of. The "high winds" were 40-50 mph, windy for sure, but not a hurricane, either. "This big barn...didn't used to have a hole in it. I think this happened with the high winds Monday or maybe Tuesday morning."
View attachment 6271

Considering that 50mph is about when it gets very difficult to walk, I get the perception. This also looks like something cobbled together in a no-code-enforcement area. Add that to the rust and, lo, a hole!