IC Circuits

[rkvbobby123]

What can go wrong in IC on PCBs. I hear there are counterfeit ICs. How do we know what is counterfeit if all is labeled correctly.

Extract:
A Broker shipped counterfeit microcontrollers intended for use in braking systems in high-speed trains in Europe.
A broker shipped counterfeit semiconductors intended for use in nuclear submarines.

How can we be sure it has the right silicon die inside?!

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Be prepared to look at the silicon through an electron microscope... but that's a destructive set of tests, typically only done when there is already a suspicion of counterfeit parts. Often, however, the packaging (e.g., plastic flashing not removed) and markings (e.g., font used) can give you a big clue. In such cases, the original manufacturer can be a big help in determining if a lot of legal. You can also have B-lot of the proper die that has reduced electrical/thermal/speed capabilities... those are nigh impossible to determine beyond getting statistics of units in use.

But a sure-fire way to determine it without destruction? Unlikely.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[IRstuff]

One might presume that a broker would be able to show provenance of their products. One approach is to go only with reputable brokers and avoid buying from brokers with super good deals; there's often a reason why deals are too good to be true. I've personally gotten a bunch of SD cards that were counterfeit off of eBay, but I know the risks going in and I tested them the instant I got them; of course, eBay was on the hood to refund my purchase.

I'm a little scared that someone building a nuclear sub would use a disreputable broker; a previous company got into trouble for buying real parts, but from Radio Shack.

If you've got the equipment, you could possibly x-ray the parts and see if the images correspond with known good parts. Otherwise, you have to slap them into a tester and see if they respond and operate correctly.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

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[Skogsgurra]

Burn in at the extremes and speeds they are specified for might be a way. If in doubt, I would test the pieces for a prolonged period and then finish with higher clocks than specified and, finally, with higher and higher temperatures, voltages and loads.

But is it really worth it? Such a test will cost a lot more than getting the right part from the right manufacturer in the first place.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[rkvbobby123]

Such non technical answers serve little except to add to the volume of the forum. Who wants to buy from bad guys.
"
One might presume that a broker would be able to show provenance of their products. One approach is to go only with reputable brokers and avoid buying from brokers with super good deals; there's often a reason why deals are too good to be true."

 

[VEBill]

The real world solution is the concept of "Approved Vendors".

Nobody in the company is permitted to purchase parts except via approved vendors. The QA department makes sure that the approved vendors provide the certification that the supplied parts are actually genuine.

 

[IRstuff]

OK, fine, I gave you my technical answer, which you ignored, so I'm done

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[Skogsgurra]

So, tell us what you really want to know. Is about the ancient purple plague? Or electrons leaking away from tiny gates? Or just plain failure?

Who can deliver "technical" descriptions when you think that our very short answers already take up too much space? And also receive scorn for good measure.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[3DDave]

Let's see if we can use Google to answer "How do I detect fake ICs?"

Oh, look, thousands of results.

Also, can you say who you work for? I don't want products from a company that doesn't have good quality measures in place.

 

[rkvbobby123]

Google was great. Thanks. I just wanted some personal experience but thank you all,

 

[waross]

Submit a sample to the supposed manufacturer for verification. They want counterfeit chips even less than you do.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[Comcokid]

Counterfeit ICs take many forms. From ICs made by Company X with spec-level B remarked as Company Z spec-level A, to parts removed from used boards with original markings intact resold as new, to parts made on the real two-shift production line by a non-existent 3rd shift with no test and sold by the shift operators on the black market, all the way down to bad parts with bogus markings with no chance of functioning.

There are IC test companies that get involved in determining the reliability of counterfeit chips in the end application when this has happened. I once saw a presentation by Integra Technologies. After all, you can't recall a satellite once launched if the paperwork is later determined to be forged (yes, this has happened in satellites and weapon systems). Counterfeit parts have even made it into pacemakers.

 

[rkvbobby123]

That is how it all happens. There is no more any integrity left even in Life saving areas.
But I am looking at some clear Nine point circle that passes through all the police marked 'Enter at your own risk' areas showing actual technical inputs.