IFC Appendix B vs. NFPA 13 4

[Mark Ellis]

I'm a plumbing and fire protection designer. I have a fire chief who is upset at the architect for using Type V over Type 1 construction. We have a hydraulically designed building that requires 486 gpm with an additional 250 outside hose. Flow is 55 psi at system demand.

The fire chief is coming back saying we need 1500 gpm per Appendix B of the IFC. I've never used the IFC in doing fire protection drawings. I also don't think it's been adopted, the chief attached an ordinance and it does not specifically address any of the appendices.

I'm just trying to figure out where I stand with this issue. We have hydraulic calcs stating that the building is protected, and I have no idea where I'd get an additional 800 gpm. (I also realize that the chart in Appendix B states that those flows are at 20 psi. Even with that taken into consideration, the flow tests show that I'd get about 1140 gpm @ 20 psi.)

 

[MatthewJWillis]

Two separate animals.

IFC Appendix B is for Fire Flow Demand. Your drawing has nothing to do with it.
The 1500 is generated specifically for Fire Ground operations.IF the Arch went with a combustible building, the Chief may have a valid point. If you sized the underground and hydrants however.....

Also, there is a 75% reduction in Fire Flow demand IF the building is fully sprinklered.

R/
Matt

 

[cdafd]

Will the building have a fire sprinkler system????

 

[TravisMack]

Yes. So many do not realize that we design to the code first and the standard tells us how.

Now, typically the site fire flow requirements are handled by the civil guy that is doing all of the site work. But, yes, typically your hydrants need 1500 gpm (min) at 20 psi if you are governed by the IFC.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

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[stookeyfpe]

You should tell the Fire Chief that the water supply can't meet the IFC prescribed fire flow and to make the building compliant, the building is being sprinklered.

Also, the Fire Chief doesn't need to adopt Appendix B. 2012 IFC Section 507.3 only prescribes that the fire flow be determined by an approved method.

 

[Mark Ellis]

Thanks for all the help so far.

The building is fully sprinklered. 1500 gpm is the minimum per Appendix B.

I did not design the site water system, there are 3 buildings in this phase and my understanding is that they won't let site water work continue until this issue is resolved. Makes it hard to see if we can get the additional flow if we're not able to test it.

Might be grasping at straws with this, but I don't see anywhere in the ordinance adopting the IFC that Appendix B is specifically adopted as part of said ordinance, and according to the IFC the appendices must be "specifically referenced in the ordinance."

 

[UFT12]

The building is fully sprinklered. 1500 gpm is the minimum per Appendix B.

Per table B105.2 of IFC, your should worry for 1000 gpm, not 1500. MatthewJWillis stated the 75% reduction as well. Observe note 'a' of the table.

a. The reduced fire-flow shall be not less than 1,000 gallons per minute.

 

[Mark Ellis]

I think that's a change only in 2015. My jurisdiction is using the 2009 version.

I am taking the 75% reduction.