Ignorant Management (Hijacked Ignorance is Bliss Thread)

[LSPSCAT]

What happens when management is just ignorant?

After working at engineering company for several years I am realizing that a greater portion of our workforce knows very little about the engineering requirements in our designs. It appears that the engineering department has been stuck in a vacuum for about 20 years due to lack of training, education, and outside influence. As the complexity of the project workload evolved they failed to have developed any additional analysis techniques, calculation methodoligies, or adherence to codes / regulations.

Management at all levels seems to have an ignorance is bliss attitued....ohhh it can't be that bad...

The management seems to be willing to place the responsibility large projects with just about anyone - regardless of consequence, with very little oversight.

The solace if any, is that in general most of the "new" designs are copies of the old designs which were quite overdesigned. So, even if an engineer fails to correctly design portions of the equipment the drafters typically resort to the time tested designs and incorporate enough of the details to have a working design.

Several of us have made a firm stand to reduce our workload in order to perform due diligence in our own work; due to the hands off management approach they pretty much have accepted our terms! However, we feel an undercurrent of that echoes of a complete lack of respect for our engineering knowledge, aptitude, and our dedication to using responsible engineering judgement. (Many of our designs do require a PE stamps)

I actually like what I do and enjoy the engineering for what it is. I am confident in the work that I am responsible for; I cringe at the thought of promotion because I do not want to be in charge of this mess!

My main goal is to then focus on improving the atmosphere and increasing our techinal abilities as a group. Not sure about the chances of success, any thoughts? The alternative is to look for greener pastures!

(To boot we have been invaded by a roving band of accountants - they subscribe to the philosphy that all technical challenges can be overcome during a 2 week design phase and all manufacturing can be completed in 4 weeks)

 

[ctopher]

Ignorance is a growing trend...

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[jmw]

Look carefully at what you have said which is that ignorance doesn't seem to be hurting the business.
Businesses judge success based primarily on profitability; not whether the business is as profitable as it can be or as efficient therefore as it can be, but on whether it is making more money than it is spending.
Some goals are nice to look at but in a practical world, if it works, and can continue to work even with less keen and efficient people, then it is a "good" model.
Any time a business becomes dependent on or accustomed to, high standards, it becomes a difficult model to sustain and the only way is down.

In practical terms many a major engineering project is priced based on a formula that incorporates a number of key factors which are used to reprice an existing proven and already built solution. Add a material costs escalator etc. In fact, no one wants anyone to tamper with the model. One company I dealt with admitted that one of the components they specified had never ever worked. It was always replaced with a different product during commissioning. But the suggestion they adapt the initial design to correct this was vehemently rejected; tampering with the set up was taboo. It could extend beyond one product into many products... and that would change the cost basis and the variances...

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[LSPSCAT]

jmw,

You are correct and I agree. You reasoning is partially why I have a hard time disagreeing with the management or making a case. At the end of the day they can rightfully claim that equipment shipped and we made money. And the phone keeps ringing!

I have attempted to have patience at this job and really observe before making a rash decision. If this was my first job I would have walked out the door on day one. Having worked at 3 other companies, in different industries, I realize I do not have too much to complain about.

 

[jmw]

On the other hand, the phone often continues to ring because some companies develop an inertia and because all are tarred with the same brush.
It means that in theory, a company that does all the things you want to do and which sets out a better stall may still find it hard to justify.
In the world of ssales, everyone thinks salesmen just want a lower price to win jobs but there is a surprising truth that salesmen would have to admit to;
They will not infrequently lose orders to:
[ul][li] inferior products[/li]
[li] higher priced products[/li]
[li] inferior products at higher prices[/li][/ul]
This applies to capital projects too.
Being better doesn't guarantee you will do better.
But its nice to dream and while you may not win the war, winning a few small skirmishes can incrementally move the company forward which is necessary unless the company is prepared to wake up one day to find that they have been leapfrogged... so you may wish to carry on pushing the envelope a bit here and a bit there.

Of course, you shouldn't accept advise from me..... I used to frequently over excite management beyond their capacity to think and reason and it didn't do me any good. The company, yes. Me: no.
You have to remember that management are essentially cautious don't rock the boat types.
They fear most of all doing something that costs money and doesn't deliver immediate results even though they may dream of making the big play that will get them on the board.....


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[cranky108]

There is a difference between salesmen and marketing, and the salesmen won't make many sales with an overly priced, inferer product, but the marketing men will. That is a problem many of us face, is that the salesmen do such a bad job, and they are selling an inferer product, at a higher price. But the marketing men go over our heads directly to managment and sell a whole system, with there embeded over priced, inferer product, and we are expected to make it work and running.
That is not only depressing, but a kick in the teeth.