Illinois PE vs SE experience

[YoungJK]

I recently took the PE exam in Illinois. I plan on getting the PE now, and the SE later once I have time to do some studying. I had my first kid recently, so giving up a few weeks to study for the PE exam was doable. Most of my experience would be considered structural in nature; since Illinois licenses separately, I have learned that much of my structural experience may not count for a PE license. Because of this, I will focus on "civil" experience for my application. I have a few questions I'd like some help with.



Should I include the structural design experience as well to have more content? I've worked with all the major materials in high wind and seismic environments.



Since the line between the two isn't very clear sometimes, what sort of items count as "civil" experience? I have done plenty of site structure type designs; retaining walls, equipment pads, electrical manholes, fences and gates. I have done very little grading or utility work.



I have helped with some construction scheduling, planning, and cost evaluation, but mostly as it related to my structures which were pieces of much larger projects. Should I include those types of items?



Thanks in advance,



Josh

 

[Ron]

I'm not sure if Illinois is THAT picky, but most stuff counts for civil...including structural experience.

 

[ImminentCollapse]

Something sounds off. How did you learn that your experience may not count toward the PE? If they approved you take the PE in IL, then you should be good. I have not heard of someone being approved to take the exam, pass, then not be granted licensure because of lack of proper experience. Didn't you have to include work experience on the PE exam application?


IC

 

[YoungJK]

Experience was not part of the application process to take the PE exam. Experience will be included in the application for the PE license.

I emailed the licensing office asking about a separate issue. The representative included in his response "Note: A PE in illinois cannot offer structural services." I replied that I understood that an Illinois PE could not offer structural services in Illinois, and asked if the fact that most of my experience is structural in nature would be a problem. His reply was "If the Board does allow your experience, you will not be allowed to offer any structural services in Illinois until you are licensed as a SE."

I will tackle the SE next, but do not have time to study for it at this point. Since they offer the Civil-Structural PE exam, I did not think structural experience would prevent me from obtaining the PE, but only limit types of services offered in Illinois.

 

[fel3]

That's a very odd procedure. Why should anyone be allowed to sit for the PE exam with PRIOR proof of eligibility? If that's how Illinois does it, it defies logic…and this is coming from someone in California, where defying logic seems to be built into our state constitution.

I took the California PE exam for civil more than 30 years ago. The application to sit for the exam required that I include my qualifying experience and three PE references. Without submitting my bona fides, I wouldn't have been able to get into the testing venue, let alone take the test. Period. End of story. Then, once I passed the exam, I received my PE certificate automatically (though they misspelled my name and I had to send it back for replacement). It's still that way here.

Since structural engineering is a subset of civil engineering, it doesn't make sense to me why you can't include your structural experience as part of you civil experience. However, in a state where the non-qualified are apparently allowed to take the PE exam, I make no promises.

Your licensing board seems intent on not properly answering your questions. Keep plugging away and good luck.

BTW, does a civil PE in Illinois preclude you offering ANY structural engineering services or just the big stuff. For example, a California civil can do some structural engineering. For example, right now I'm working on a reinforced concrete secondary containment pit for some chemical storage tanks and I can do that under my civil license, but I can't do high-rises, schools, hospitals, etc (nor would I want to).

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"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[YoungJK]

fel3, Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Illinois would give California a good fight in defying logic.

That being said, I see passing the exam as a step to assess knowledge, just like getting a degree and passing the FE assesses knowledge. I did have to wait until after my 4 years of experience, though I could have passed the exam easilty within a couple years of graduation. Passing the PE prior to applying for a license which requires a passing PE score seems logical to me.

The description below of "structuralengineering" is very broad and seems to include just about anything requiring safe design. It's long, so you may or may not be interested enough to read it.

ILLINOIS STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING PRACTICE ACT EXCERPT (Ch. 111, par. 6605)
A person shall be regarded as practicing structural engineering within the meaning of this Act who is engaged in the design, analysis, or supervision of the construction, enlargement or alteration of structures, or any part thereof, for others, to be constructed by persons other than himself. Structures within the meaning of this Act are all structures having as essential features foundations, columns, girders, trusses, arches or beams, with or without other parts, and in which safe design and construction require that loads and stresses must be computed and the size and strength of parts determined by mathematical calculations based upon scientific principles and engineering data. A person shall also be regarded as practicing structural engineering within the meaning of this Act who is engaged as a principal in the design, analysis, or supervision of the construction of structures or of the structural part of edifices designed solely for the generation of electricity; or for the hoisting, cleaning, sizing or storing of coal, cement, sand, grain, gravel or similar materials; elevators; manufacturing plants; docks; bridges; blast furnaces; rolling mills; gas producers and reservoirs; smelters; dams; reservoirs; waterworks; sanitary works as applied to the purification of water; plants for waste and sewage disposal; round houses for locomotives; railroad shops; pumping or power stations for drainage districts; or power houses, even though such structures may come within the definition of "buildings" as defined in any Act in force in this State relating to the regulation of the practice of architecture.

 

[metengr]

State boards are like little kingdoms. There are a number of state boards permitting individuals to sit for the PE exam, regardless of experience, and if they pass the exam must wait to be licensed until all requirements are met. This is the way it is.
However, if you intend to apply for licensure by comity in a state that requires specific experience before sitting for a PE exam you may not be able to obtain a license from that state.

 

[fel3]

Thanks for the additional info. I was previously unaware of this method of obtaining a PE license. IMHO, it's bass-ackward to allow someone to sit for a licensing exam they are not fully qualified to take due to lack of experience, then wait for them to add experience before they can get their license. It also adds an unnecessary step to the process. It seems strange to say this, but California actually does this better. You take the exam only when you have met all the requirements for licensure, then when you pass the exam you are automatically licensed.

YoungJK…if I read this correctly, with a civil PE in Illinois you couldn't even do a 3-foot-high retaining wall because it has a foundation. Or maybe, since walls are not listed as essential features of structures, you could design the wall if an SE did the foundation. On the other hand, the use of the word "edifice", which is a large structure, in the middle of this section implies you could do small structures. Finally, the language also implies that if you used magic instead of "mathematical calculations based upon scientific principles and engineering data" you COULD do structural engineering. Every time I read regulatory language, I feel like I have fallen down the rabbit hole.

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"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[brandonbw]

How many SE's are there in IL if a PE can't work on any structural related items??

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

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http://bwstructuralengineer.com

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http://bwcivilengineer.com

 

[oldestguy]

Not having to deal with this, I can only mention what the structural engineers in an office I was with had to go through. They also complained about the oral exam that went along with it (back then).