I'm not in it for the money...I'm not in it for the money... 3

[HgTX]

Went to an alumni event last week. Found out that STARTING salaries for people graduating from my program with a BS are right around what I'm making now after 10 years and an MS.

I remind myself...no one takes a government job for the high salary.

But it wasn't fun to find out, anyway.

Hg

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[PJones]

I was in that situation once - then led a rebellion to rectify the situation! I doubt you have that option in government, but in private industry anything can happen.

 

[livingston]

Just take comfort in knowing that there is a level of security in your position that private sector does not have. (No guarantees but surely better job security.)

 

[mauricestoker]

Having survived BRAC88, BRAC91, BRAC95, and facing losing my job under BRAC05, job security is much better State side than overseas. Of course, there are always things like OMB76, where you can lose your job, along with hundreds of other people, on political decisions.

The real pain is when you have to sue the government to get paid, or go to the IRS because some idiot in finance and non-accountability decides to set themselves up as an independent tax authority, or when you get dropped from payroll for 3 months, or when you inexplicably get a pay cut that no one can explain (current situation) and try to get your salary restored for 4 months.

I've never had an issue with salary, as I knew what that was walking in the door. Actually getting paid that salary has been a severe problem. Getting to design and manage projects that I would never get to in the private sector until years of more experience was a very large plus, as well as the travel and training available. I'm certain that if I was in the private sector, I would never have had the opportunity to see and do the same things through the public sector. If you don't want to travel and do new things, that is an option in the public sector (main reason why I now am still working for Uncle Sugar). I've been offered sizable salary increase on multiple occassions to move to the private sector, relocating my family (which they do not want to do)or not spending weeks/months away from home are benefits that don't get mentioned much, but for me means more than salary differential. I love the work I do, and why I'm doing it, which is often not the case in the public sector.

 

[casseopeia]

No matter how fortunate you are to have a job or a degree of satisfaction or security, it's still a demoralizing slap in the face. Best advice I can offer is to find an activity to blow off some steam that does not involve hurting your own health. For me I like dance. However I have also found that making a full size dummy of the target of my anger and unloading a banana clip into it while yelling "git some, git some", and then setting it on fire works wonders for the soul.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[Latexman]

Hg,

I bet your retirement benefits, especially medical, will be better and more secure than theirs!

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[moltenmetal]

For a guy with 10 years post grad, retirement is a LONG way away!

You can't help but tie your dignity up a bit in what you're paid. If you absolutely love the job you're in, pay matters less, but after 10 years you should be earning double a typical starting salary, not equal to it. That's a pretty serious differential and can't be ignored. You can struggle to get it changed in the system like others have, or you can seek work elsewhere, but sitting around thinking about how great it will be when you retire is not really an option!

 

[HgTX]

I haven't even doubled *my* starting salary, let alone that of new grads.

On the other hand, the cited figures on the university career center website do seem awfully high. They're significantly higher than what my grad school classmates headed for the private sector were starting at when I graduated. I wonder how much of it is built-in bias from self-reporting.

On the first hand, today I opened a trade magazine, looked at an article about "career ladder" and saw that I am making significantly less than what they think a "technician" should be making. I'm on the first rung. Technician is on the second. Engineer was up there at twice my pay.

None of this is affecting my plan of action or lack thereof (at least none of us are being furloughed), but it's still no fun.

Hg

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[KENAT]

HgTX, trying to look at pay surveys and the like tends to be demoralizing. Many of the ones I look at tend to be high, higher than say job adds I look at (though less of them seem to give pay rates anymore). Salary .com is the worst for this.

Then again, I got given a print out telling my my pay rate the other day (I actually got a moderate raise this year instead of a cut/freeze). However, on it there was my 'job classification' stated along with the typical pay range.

I'm a good few thousand below the 'minimum', and not much more than half the maximum. So, I could choose to me miffed at this, or try and remember that I actually make OK money for what I spend much of my time doing, and that there are a lot out there worse off.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[Latexman]

I've found the Bureau of Labor Statistics helpful.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[RacingAZ]

Compensation in the private sector is front loaded as you cannot rely on a private company to always be there 20 or 30 years down the road.

Look at it this way, yours is back loaded as 10 years from now, you'll be a potential double dipper.

 

[HgTX]

That's another thing. I assume that "double dipper" means someone who takes retirement then comes back to or stays at one's job while simultaneously collecting retirement benefits.

Nothing double about it. Do I get any more this way than if I took the retirement benefits and worked at a different job? No. (Probably less, given the above discussion.) Is the government paying out any more money this way than if they hired a replacement for me with a similar level of experience? No.

So why does it make a difference that the retirement benefits and salary happen to have the same source and destination?

Feh.

But eenyhow. I took this job because it was more interesting than anything else that happened to be in the right place at the right time. I justified the low wage telling myself it was X% of what my classmates were getting but I was probably working Y% of the hours they worked, where X>Y.

None of it matters, in the end. Time & place are no longer right, but if I leave it probably won't be over money. On the other hand, if I stay it sure as hell won't be over money!

Hg

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[btrueblood]

I've got to say, I really dislike the trade magazine articles that discuss wage/salary surveys. Yes, there is (or appears to be) a pretty big reporting bias in the numbers, and it always depresses me.

The link that Latexman gave looks more reasonable to me. Based on that, I'm doing ok - based on my degree, I'm in the 50% bracket, and based on my current "position" given in my handle, I'm in the 75% bracket. Roughly 2.5x starting salary, 20+ years in. But no pension, just my 401k and whatever is left of Social inSecurity when I retire.

Also gotta say, I like Cass' approach. Mine was to find a good skeet range, and picture your nemesis' face on the clay pigeons...I got to where I could actually shoot in the high 20's on every round using that technique. Need to get back into that again.

 

[Latexman]

To me "double dipper" means at the end of your working career, you have two different pensions. Whether one draws from one while working for the second company was not part of the definition. A lot of people defer their pension from the first company until they retire from the second company, because it grows by some % each year they are not drawing from it.

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[casseopeia]

btrueblood, I don't go for that kind of accuracy as long as I have sufficient ammo. My brother on the other hand regularly participates in marksmanship competitions and is a lot more serious about it. I set up this little still life from all the various cartridges, shells and dropped live rounds.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[livingston]

Concerning yourself with other people's salaries is a losing proposition. As long as you are making enough to satisfy you and your lifestyle, don't sweat it. I imagine that if you look long enough you will find people making more with less experience and less with more experience.

 

[ajack1]

I cannot understand people being bitter about what others earn either. If you don’t like what you earn find a job that pays what you think you are worth, if you cannot find that you are probably being paid what you are really worth already.

Personally I view it in the same way as my house, I could have a better house in a worse location or a worse house in a better location, or I could have a better house in a better location but that would mean sacrificing other things that I am not prepared too.

I really fail to see how being bitter improves anything.

 

[moltenmetal]

Being bitter alone does nothing useful.

Comparing your salary against what the marketplace can and DOES offer to others of similar background IS useful to avoid being ripped off in salary negotiations.

A little bitterness may motivate you to get out of a rut that you've found yourself in out of laziness and complacency, if you're the right kind of person. It may just as easily motivate you to stay where you are and slack off, or make you an irritable and annoying employee, co-worker, life partner, parent etc. It's not the information itself, or the emotion or even your attitude- it's what you DO about it that matters.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

The impression I got from Hg's OP was that she was surprised and disappointed, but not bitter. I'm sure if she was bitter we would have really heard about it ... in several languages.

 

[moltenmetal]

My comment was in relation to ajack1's and livingston's.