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In over my head? 3

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vc66

Mechanical
Sep 13, 2007
934
Hi All-

I've been at my present company for about 3 months now. It's a lot different than the last industry I was in (i.e. last job=product development and 1 or 2 part top assemblies, this job=machinery and power engineering and thousands of part in a top level assembly). It took about a month for me to get acquainted with the new job, and really learn their products well. Since then, I feel I've been given the proverbial shaft (small insignificant projects, simple drafting work, no real engineering), and this makes me very angry because I'm extremely willing and eager to learn.

To make a long story short, there has been some question as to the quality of drawings that comes out of our engineering group as a whole. In a meeting the other day while talking about my projects (or lack thereof) I blurt out, "Why don't you just make me drawing checker? I've been looking for some sort of responsibility for 3 months now, and if this is how I have to get it, then so be it." My boss agreed, and 15 minutes after the meeting gave me my first task, checking a rather large assembly and all associated drawings for fits, tolerances, etc.

I have a few questions (especially any checkers out there, please feel free to chime in). Is checking EXTREMELY difficult? I've done tolerance analyses before, and I'm very organized and methodical, but I'm not sure as to the magnitude of difficulty. Is there any advice that anyone can give me to acquaint myself with this job (or any tips or reference material in general). We use the ASME 1994 standard.

Thank you all for your help in advance.

V

Mechanical Engineer
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

- R. Buckminster Fuller

 
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Checking is not difficult if you know (not in order)...
1. The company's standards
2. ASME/ISO/ANSI/etc standards
3. Machine shop practices
4. Drafting
5. Assembly methods
6. Very important, GD&T
7. Inspection methods

Knowing what to check vs just checking i's & t's and making sure a dwg looks pretty, makes a big difference.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
 
You were getting small jobs because after only three months, despite what you think, you don't know squat.

Checking is a good way to get up to speed quickly. It's easy, and it's hard.

It's easy, because there's no question about what you're trying to do. You're just verifying, formally, that the pieces fit and that the design is good enough. *Beware of that last; of course you could do it better, but you weren't there when the paper was blank, and you're probably not aware of all the design constraints.

It's hard, because you can't take _anyone's_ word for _anything_.

Example: If the Chief Engineer says something, and you can't get the documents to prove it, for example because they're on the other side of an ocean, you write out "G.L says this dimension is 12mm, exactly", or whatever he said, on the check print, using his full name, and make him sign it. Yeah, I did that.

Which brings up the other hard part; it will test your interpersonal skills. Nobody likes being criticized. Again "good enough" is the standard, and be careful to critize the design, not the person, and to not take it personally, especially when they do.

Example: "Help me understand why you did it this way instead of that way.", works a lot better than "Why did you do it this way?" ... and before you ask a question like that, try to figure it out for yourself, so you really understand the response.







Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
Thanks very much Chris and Mike for your comments. I figured checking prints and assemblies was a good way to get acquainted with things. There aren't many engineers or designers in my company, and I know and have a good rapport with all of them, so I don't believe they will take any offense to my questions/comments--I'm very level-headed when it comes to design.

Please keep the comments and advice coming!

V

Mechanical Engineer
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

- R. Buckminster Fuller

 
I feel that checking is very difficult. You need to check thoroughly and quickly - something that inexperienced people usually can't do.

Almost all the checkers at the companies that I have worked at are senior (very senior). They have the experience and knowledge to check both thoroghly, and quickly. And, they then correct the mistakes and mark-up the drawings back to the originator.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
 
Welcome to Purgatory;-)

Seriously though, some people seem to like checking OK and some of them are good at it. Some of us have it thrust upon us and muddle through best we can.

To pick up on Mikes point, unless you’re a genius and/or the product is a lot simpler than it sounds there is no way you learnt their product line well in 1 month and the fact you feel you are being shafted for being given simple drafting work hints of arrogance. It’s not uncommon for the new guy to get simple tasks to begin with, especially if they are relatively young/inexperienced which I don’t know if you are although you sound like it. You say your are willing and eager to learn, doing the small jobs you were being given was a very good way of learning, which if I understand correctly you’ve said you aren’t interested in doing, is this not something of a contradiction?

In my opinion doing a good job of checking and all it entails is EXTREMELY difficult for most people and not for the faint of heart or inexperienced.

Take a look at thread1103-193286, do you think you are qualified? Take a look at some of the comments etc. Also look at some of my other posts in that forum, especially over the last 4 months or so, since I became a checker (I’d done peer check before at previous employer but now It’s my main task).

You say you use the ASME 1994 standard. Do you mean ASME Y14.5M-1994? Do you invoke any of the other related standards? 14.5 covers a lot but not everything. Do you have a company design room manual or equivalent as well? You will need to know them well and refer to them often. You’ll also need to know relevant company procedures/processes.

Mikes right about “no one likes being criticized” some people handle it better than other but beware. People who’ve been at the company a while, especially if they are older/more experienced that you, may not take well to the newby pointing out problems/mistakes on their drawings. This is especially true if you are trying for close compliance with 14.5 etc. To really comply, certain format aspects become significant, which a lot of people argue aren’t important. Also if check is the last item before drawing release and is left till the last minute you’ll find yourself under constant pressure to hurry up. People won’t like missing deadlines because of changes you’ve asked for.

I don’t have everything in Ctophers list well covered and sometimes it shows, makes it very painful at times.

Sorry if it’s a downer but I’m trying to be honest and give the best advice I can based on the info you give.

On the bright side at least you’re at a company which cares enough about design documentation to institute checking. And kudos for stepping up to the plate.

Of use may be which I put on thread1103-190456 .

Suggest you put future questions about drawing check on Drafting Standards, GD&T & Tolerance Analysis Forum

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
KENAT,

Yes, I meant ASME Y14.5M-1994. We have no drawing manual.


The big problem for me is there is no documentation about our product lines; therefore, a good amount of my knowledge will come from experience. That being said, I've seen other newer employees being immersed in this experience that I'm craving. This bothers me to an extent. And, yes, I am a younger engineer, but I don't feel that I'm arrogant--just eager. My mindset is that of, throw me into the fire and then hold me accountable. Don't get me wrong about the drafting work. If it had to do with more of the product than just changing revision letters, then I'd be ecstatic. The drafting work that I'm being given doesn't give any experience unless I ask questions, which I do, but to which I get short, succinct answers that are of no help to me (as far as learning the product).

I admit that I am a bit impatient, but if I'm not exposed to things, how will I ever learn?

Either way, thank you for your honest opinions. I've been doing a LOT of research on drafting standards, I'm looking into buying some drafting books, and I'm talking to the machinist at my company (~30 years exp) about different manufacturing methods, holding tolerances, etc. I am definitely going to put my all into this, and hopefully I'll be able to do it well.

V

Mechanical Engineer
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

- R. Buckminster Fuller

 
Younger Engineer, well so am I, still under 30 and frankly not qualified to be doing checking.

If you are even younger/less experienced you'll be in for a struggle.

Take anything someone on the shopfloor says with a pinch of salt, while being careful not to be arrogant about it. They are most concerned with ease of manufacture, possibly at the expense of function. Engineers are typically more concerned with function. Somewhere in between there are designers/Design Engineers or whatever that try and meet both.

As a youngster there can be a fine line between eager and arrogant, be careful and best of luck.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
OK, so after reading that Drawing Checker Qualifications thread, I believe I might have to take over your signature, KENAT. I have 3 years of mechanical design experience, but in that time have become very familiar and proficient with GD&T. I have good communication skills, and am familiar with DFMA.

I guess I have a lot more research to do.

V

Mechanical Engineer
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

- R. Buckminster Fuller

 
You have already received a lot of excellent advice so my contribution will be minimal, but here is a bit about the mechanics of the check.

I do a fair amount of drawing checks and I tend to consider the drawing check as having three separate stages. In other words, I will often (but not necessarily always, depending on the situation) review a drawing three times. The process I describe below works for me, but you may vary from it or find it useless for you, depending mostly on how your mind versus my mind likes to organize tasks.

Finally, we produce designs at the part, assembly and full installation level, so each of the steps below will vary somewhat depending on the purpose of the drawing.

First, I perform a review of the drawing format. Is the border information, pagination, text size and notes section correct? Does the Parts List match the drawing for callouts and quantity of material?

Second, I review the drawing to determine if the design meets the form, fit and function requirements. In other words, will the designed entity perform its intended function? Will it fit in the intended area and attach to other entities appropriately? Is the design accessible for maintenance and inspection? (That is a big one in our aircraft world) Is the form reliably producible by the intended manufacturing organization? Does the Parts List call out materials and quantities that will provide the required characteristics (load bearing strength, flexibility, corrosion resistance,

Third, I review to determine if the entity is properly presented in (for our company) third angle projection? Are section views and scale views appropriate and correctly presented? Are necessary dimensions included where required and are they per the governing standard? Are text fonts and dimensional graphics appropriately sized and placed in such a manner as to enhance the understanding without obscuring relevant surfaces/lines?

This is just a quickie list, but I hope it helps.

debodine
 
I am also a younger engineer and have found the following helpful when drafting/checking. I go through the bill of materials piece by piece and verify all materials, quantities, and sizes are appropriate and as drawn. Then I look at how that piece connects to the other pieces listed previously in the bill. For the first part, I don't check connections, the second part I am only concerned with it's connection to the first, etc. This has been helpful in my industry as we do a fair number of large welded structures and it is easy to just place the pieces and forget a weld callout.

- MechEng2005
 
I used to create many drawings (now doing stress analysis). Anyway, i would occasionally leave out critical views and put the drawing thru check. No one ever caught the intentional mistake. The checker would always catch improper dimensional spacings, extension lines crossing, mis-spelling, etc. But not the big issues.

My point is that you have to look at the drawing as a tool to manufacture parts. Imagine that you have to use the drawing to create the part. Is the part fully defined?

Anyway, just my 2 cents.
 
Among the drawings I have checked were hydraulic system diagrams for, um, boats. The (blue)prints were typically 30 feet long. Every once in a while I'd find a print with an overlay, way down in the tightly rolled left end of the drawing, bearing a crude drawing of a human foot, and the text "Dimension A = 1 foot".

A checker trap.

You had to at least unroll the print.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
vc66

I just looked at your profile after your last post on thread1010-202142 and you may be correct, I think we might work for the same organization.

Here's the test, take a look at the company wiki at the mechanical engineering section.

( - replace **** with the last 4 letters or our company name)

You should be able to get my email from that.

If we do share employers I can send you some information on checking, some of the procedures etc that we've instituted at this site etc.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
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