industrial electrical engineer 1

[ViktorMT]

Hello everybody!
I am working on an industrial plant in Portland OR as a journeyman electrician of 10 years, and recently I graduated with BSEE. The plant has 2 electricians and in OR we can do pretty much nothing without a Supervisor electrician who would run some type of a master permit program for an industrial/commercial establishment. The muster permit program can be established either with a supervisor electrician or electrical engineer that has been employed by an employer. A week ago our supervisor had quit and I see this as a good opportunity for me to try to establish an Electrical engineering position.
So my question is,
what I will need in my new department to perform my duties? What type of software, legal forms and publications, handbooks and etc. And anything you can think off would be very helpful.

 

[itsmoked]

I doubt we can tell you since everyplace will be different.

Investigate what your place has and expects.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[dpc]

Congrats on the BSEE. You have a great complement of experience and education at this point.

In Oregon I believe you would need a PE license to be able to fully replace a Supervising Electrician in terms of the work their license authorizes them to perform. I have been told, but never confirmed, that a EE with a PE license can do anything a Supervising Electrician is authorized to do. Not that this makes any sense to me, but it's not up to me.

I'd check with the Oregon engineering board.

 

[xnuke]

As far as the master permit program goes, please see [URL unfurl="true"]http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/479.560[/url] section (3) and OAR 918-309 section 918-309-0100. Portland's master permit requirements are found here. Note that if you are in Portland's jurisdiction, until you have a GS, PS or EE (I'm pretty sure they mean a PE especially qualified in Electrical Engineering) present, you and the other journeyman are limited to LME work. Among other things, the master permit program is a good argument for an engineering position, but you will need an electrical PE to fill it, which leaves you out of the running for now.

As far as plant engineers go, many do not perform design but rather hire consulting engineering firms as needed. You would then work as a project engineer with the consultant. If you feel this would be your role, you should learn about engineering services contracts and the business and project management sides of engineering instead of spending a lot of time on technical topics.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

And don't forget - if you want your PE you need to work under the supervision of a PE for 4 years and you will need 3 or 4 other PEs to verify your competence, qualifications and work. Check with the OR PE Board - they are all slightly different.

This can be hard to do in a "small" office w/o other PEs. But it can be done with some foresight.

Congrats and Good Luck

 

[ViktorMT]

Dear, xnuke!
You had posted a link to the Master permit program. I had started the whole thread here because of this confusion in their words here:

" B. LICENSE REQUIREMENTS AND WORK ALLOWED
There are four different license configurations for the Master Permit that can be utilized. An
applicant may use any one or all four options as long as a separate log is kept for each one
of the four. As appropriate for the type of work to be performed, applicants must:
1. Employ one or more person(s) possessing a General Supervisor (GS) or Plant
Supervisor (PS) license or have an Electrical Engineer (EE) on staff. (A Professional
Engineer (PE) is not allowed.) Any one of these allows all other electrical licenses to
perform electrical installations under their specific license except for service
installations."

I would like somebody explain me this, ideally an EE who has/had an experience with it.

 

[xnuke]

Please check with the city of Portland, but I'm guessing they mean what I said before:

I'm pretty sure they mean a PE especially qualified in Electrical Engineering

In Oregon, a PE is allowed to stamp and seal any drawing that lies within their area of competence, but the area of competence is not indicated on the stamp, except for structural and traffic. However, "Registrants shall undertake assignments only when qualified by education or experience in the specific technical fields of engineering or land surveying involved" OAR 820-020-0020(1). So technically, though my certificate says that "having especially qualified in Electrical Engineering" if I'm qualified by experience and consider myself competent, I could legally stamp a mechanical drawing. If you look up an engineer with the "Find a Licensee" tool, you'll see you can search by branch. I think the Portland document means that they want a PE who is especially qualified in EE, and a PE without the EE branch designation will not suffice. Again, that's my opinion - call Commercial Electrical at (503) 823-7304, and ask them what they mean.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[crthompson]

This thread doesn't really apply to me but I was just wondering if an electrical engineering technology degree would be included...

 

[ViktorMT]

Hello everybody again! I think I had found the answer!
Here it is:

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_800/oar_820/820_040.html

Read it and you will find there are some exempts, where you do not require to have a PE registration in order to practice to some extend and that is what they, probably meant, when they had created the master permit program in Oregon.
What are your thoughts, please?

 

[xnuke]

The first thing to do when there is doubt is to stop trying to interpret things and ask. Call Portland BDS Commercial Electrical at (503) 823-7304 and ask them what they mean when they say EE in the master permit program requirements. It appears to me that even though the work that takes place at your site may not fit the definition of electrical engineering and/or require a PE per the OAR you found, the Portland master electrical permit that your site maintains may require one. You need to focus on the master permit program requirements, because that is your best bet for getting an engineering position created at your workplace to replace the signing supervisor that left. (I still think a PE especially qualified in EE will need to fill the position, not a new grad.) You aren't going to get any better answer from anyone here than the AHJ responsible for the program can give you, and I don't feel like doing any more of your legwork for you. Pick up the phone!

Also, a reminder - if you and your electrician colleague are doing anything more than an LME is allowed to do during this period without a signing supervisor or an EE on staff, your your coworker, and your company could get into trouble, e.g., lose the master permit, lose licenses, face fines, etc. Get this cleared up now!

crthompson - under certain circumstances defined in the OARs and ORSs, someone with an EET degree can qualify if they're a PE in EE. Click here and go to 820-010-0225 to see the educational requirements to take the FE exam.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[dpc]

I agree with xnuke - the OAR that you linked are the regulations for the Engineering Board. This has little or nothing to do with the Master Permit and electrician licensing in Oregon. There are two different boards, two different enabling laws, and two different sets of regulations and rules.

You might talk with the Engineering Board to get their opinion, but in the end they don't have jurisdiction on Master Permits.

 

[ViktorMT]

Xnuk!
You are absolutely right in everything you said in all of your posts here! Thank you very much!
I called every where I could, they want a PE with EE, but not any other specialty PE.

 

[xnuke]

You're welcome! Good luck to you.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[electrageek]

Hi VitorMT,

I am a PE in Oregon. I would suggest you continue forward with your career path torward a PE. In Oregon that means you need to sit for the EIT or FET exam.(Engineer in Training) It is an 8 hour exam covering all areas of engineering. (mechanical, civil, strengh of materials etc) It's is best to take the test as soon as you can once you finish your BSEE. We all start forgetting the other branches of engineering once we are out of school for a while. MiketheEngineer is right, in Oregon you need to work under the direction or at least along side a PE for four years to be able to qualify to sit for the PE exam. It is also an 8 hour test with the first 4 hours covering all aspects of electrical engineering, and the second 4 hours covering your specialty. (Control sysytems, computer eng, electrical and electronics, and Power) good luck stick with it.

 

[xnuke]

electrageek,

They've changed the PE exam since you took it. There is no general section in the morning anymore. The test is eight hours of your specialty topic - computer, or electrical & electronics, or power - as indicated here.

They're also about to drastically change the FE exam. Beginning in 2014, it will no longer be a morning general section and an afternoon specialization - it'll be a specialization exam all day long. See here. It'll also be a computer-based test, which will allow for greater scheduling flexibility than just twice a year (year-round), and supposedly improved exam security.

ViktorMT, I agree with electrageek about taking the FE exam. If you haven't, you should. The deadline to take the October exam has passed, but you could take the April exam. The registration deadline is Dec. 1.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[REDDOG]

A Supervising Electrician or Master Electrician is that person that is licensed by the
Authority Having Jurisdiction to pull permits to do electrical work.
The examination for that position varies from municipality to municipality.
Therefore the exam may be one hour to seven hours. The examination tests ones understanding of the National Electrical Code (NFPA-70). Municipalities enforce some version of the NEC.
The Supervising Electrician is the person held responsible for taking out electrical permits whenever the installation electrical system is modified and the work is done in compliance with the localelectrical code.