Interesting policy brief from the Kauffman Foundation 1

[Fisch88]

Engineers concerned about America's engineering talent pool should read this brief. The focus is foreign graduates in STEM disciplines, how to retain them, effects on innovation, and future growth prospects for the U.S.

I am curious about other's opinions regarding U.S. graduates, and employment prospects. All the scientists and engineers I know want to study, work and make their careers in the U.S. too (The American dream is for Americans too. No offense to foreign born engineers).

Is there really that much of a need that our unemployed can not fill? Do we really need to have a larger engineering talent pool? I've been in engineering for 23 years, the last 10 years have been particularly brutal for me - constant threat of, or actual layoffs, zero to negative raises, benefits cuts, jobs offshored. I don't have companies banging down my door offering work.

It seems to me that there is an engeering need within many organizations, but a hesitation to hire and pay decent wages. Not really a lack of skilled labor, but an unwillingness to pay for it, and lack of organizational function, support or tools to unleash it (which I think is the main issue).

I think the brief is overlooking and missing detail regarding the state of engineering employment in the US, the number of engineers currently unemployed, how research is pushed through universities, other pathways to innovation, how to provide opportunities for engineers to participate in government R&D outside of academia.

Disclaimer - I am a middle aged white male, born in Green Bay, WI, living in the Mid-West, wife and two kids. Hanging on to my job so far. M.S. in engineering. Consider myself a liberal.

 

[TheTick]

My dad came to this country because he knew this was a place where he could make things happen. He was an engineer and chemist with many ideas and aspirations. He also knew he would never be in a position to make it happen in his home country (Germany).

I believe the US is important to the whole world for that reason. It is a place where talent can make things happen, without having to be born into the "right" family or wrestle with overly corrupt or crippling institutions.

The big fat middle of moderately talented scientists and engineers do not benefit from the competition. The country as a whole does benefit. Not every engineer and scientist coming from India or China is a genius, but it's good for us to keep the geniuses among them here.

BTW I grew up just south of Green Bay in Neenah. Go Pack!

 

[MikeHalloran]

My last job disappeared because of a general RIF, because the company was in dire straits, etc.

Some time within the following week or so, they managed to find enough money to hire an Indian-born replacement, with a shiny new masters degree. From what I hear, he's a nice guy, and smart enough, but he has no mentor and no experience, so the company is paying for him to learn hard lessons the hard way.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[csd72]

Fisch88, you know what, this is definately not a purely American phenomenon, we have had some posts about the Australian situation and the industry claiming shortage when engineering average salaries were less than the national average.

One person commented that there was not a shortage of engineers but simply a shortage of cheap engineers.

The problem with ALL these thinktanks is that they are full of management and economics majors but they only see one side of the many faceted story and this is often very different to the way we see it.

A good example here is that they ran a lessons learnt meeting about a tunnelling project that went wrong and they invited the operations manager, the director, several members of the commercial team as wellas several other related managers but they did not invite the one person in the company that can actually understand a soils report (i.e. me). The result is that they came up with a contractual solution to a technical problem, i.e they did not alleviate the risk, simply decided that they would transfer it to the subcontractor next time.

 

[KENAT]

I think the 'cheap imports' aspect certainly rings true to me from my experience at my current employer.

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[ewh]

Same here.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[cranky108]

I can see a point in some aspects. However, what I see is a lack of talented, and experenced people in the area I am in.

But also what I see, is a desire to under pay people, and not provide training for new people entering the field.

The problems look like they were created by industry, and they don't want to do what is right by the people who work there.

On the other hand, I live here because I like it and don't want to move. If I were willing to move I could do better.

 

[KENAT]

The 'not wanting to train folk up' aspect is also significant.

Also related things like wanting temporary contract workers that are productive from day one, rather than getting in folk and training them up as 'permanent' (I know, no such thing as permanent) employees.

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[csd72]

Yes I agree with the lack of training thing, this problem has been particularly prvalent in australia particularly with drafting staff. The result is that good draftsmen are in such short supply that they can earn as much as a senior engineer.

My wife on the other hand works in a very non technical job and has at stages recieved so much training t6hat she was complaining about it.

 

[cranky108]

We haven't had as much problems with drafting, because we use 2D drawings for electricals. But we do need to do more checking because the people we hire can't understand the drawings.

But we have seen shortages for technications, or technications with shortage of knoledge.

 

[GregLocock]

"the Australian situation and the industry claiming shortage when engineering average salaries were less than the national average."

I don't get this. National median salary is $65k?

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6302.0

Starting pay for an engineering grad is 65k

So are large numbers of Australian engineers being paid significantly less than new grads?

Odd.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[csd72]

Greg,

It may be in your industry but in Civil and structural it is still around the 40 mark as far as I am aware.