Interviewing after leaving on Bad Terms. 3

Bottom Line:

Does anyone have advice on how to handle interviewing after "burning a bridge" between your previous company and yourself? In other words, leaving a bad company on bad terms. I appreciate suggestions, especially from hiring managers.

More general information is below if needed.

I don't want to look like I'm bad mouthing my last company. If I bring up that the relationship was bad, I feel it will lower my candidacy. If I wait for the topic to arise, then it looks like I was hiding something. Additionally, if they talk with my previous company, I won't know what is *really* being said about me and have a chance to address those concerns. Even if I had the chance to address the concerns, I'm not even sure I could explain without getting detailed (which could probably get me into legal problems). I doubt it is a good idea to go around saying that your last company had ethics and managment that made you sick to your stomache. I'm a good employee and a good person just need the chance to prove myself without having to get into lawyer problems.

The culture:

-Unethical, dysfunctional, technically unknowledgeable employees and management.
-Very greedy unethical upper management.
-Employees trained on the unethical practices and how avoid "trouble."
-Very high turnover rate.
-Employees that stay have same thinking of management or don't want to stir up problems. Total "CYA" mentality between management-worker and worker-worker.

The Company:

-Very busy with tons of work coming in.
-Very well-known company with *many* "friends" in the industry.

How is this possible? Simple. The image and knowledge of the company are completely different from the real company and what's happening behind the scenes. And those who know the real company are, like I said, "friends" in the industry.


You don't like what you are asked to do and end up "stiring up trouble" and you decide to quit. You didn't do the proper CYA to cover yourself and the company makes you look like the bad employee.

Side note: Please keep responses aimed toward handling future interviews, and not toward ethical obligations with respect to notifying the proper authorities. That is all taken care of--and an entirely new thread in itself.

Thank You.

 

[vpl]

You might check out the post by ETY on "Interview Questions" in the forum "Where is Engineering Going in the Next 5 Years". I think the comments from HAF - especially those about what you learned from the experience - would be good ones for which to have prepared answers when you walk into your next interview. Approach it as a "learning experience" of things that you would do different in the future, but don't lie about it. And definitely try finding out during the interview what that company's position is on the issues that are important to you - so you don't end up in another bad position.

Good luck.

 

[Haf]

Maybe this answer is a little idealist, but I see no reason why you shouldn't be relatively honest about your experience with your last company in your interviews. Notice I said "relatively honest," not perfectly honest. In other words, make sure you discuss problems with your past employer in a professional and discreet manner (I wouldn't necessarily outline the comments you made above). There's no need to be specific (which could land you in legal problems); general comments will suffice. If you are interviewing with someone who prefers not to address that type of topic (i.e., someone you fear may lower your candadicy based on your response), then they will likely drop the subject after your discreet response (which they will appreciate). If you're interviewing with someone that wants all the gorry details, then you have a decision to make.

Either way, if you are looking for a new job, potential employers will realize that you probably had reasons for leaving your last job. Furthermore, they will realize that these reasons may not always be pleasant.

One potential approach: Towards the beginning of your interview, you will likely have a chance to tell the interviewer what you are looking for in your next position/company. Tell them what you are looking for. Then tell them that these things were lacking in your last position/company, and that you're looking for a change. That's an easy and subtle way to bring up the the subject without appearing to slam your last company. You won't outwardly be saying negative things about your last company; you're just implying them. Let the interviewer figure out the rest.

Now, if you're worried about your past employer slamming you, that's a trickier subject. Are you leaving on really terrible terms (i.e., you cussed out your boss and/or made a scene or you tried to expose the company)? I hate to say it, but if that's the case, you've got a pretty big problem, that, in my admitted youth, I don't have good advise on. All I can say is that you should avoid doing that, as it may reflect poorly on you no matter what the circumstances. I'm sure there are more experienced folks in this forum that could give some advise, either from experience as the interviewer or the interviewee.

Remember, you theoretically have access to anything your past employer says about you by the Freedom of Information Act. That may be one defense. Furthermore, you can request that the company not contact your present (or past) employer. This is a relatively common request that won't necessarily lower your candidacy. Remember, lots of folks look for other jobs while still employed, and don't want their current bosses getting phone calls!

Good luck!

Haf

 

[MortenA]

I think that you should try to avoid "the truth".
But the situation should be handled very differently if you have already left/got fired or if you are still with the company. Im not sure after reading your post but i get the feeling that its the first.

If you already left and didnt re-locate then you must try to tell the truth without trying to "smear" the company and especially your former colleagues. I think the last part is very important because who would like to work with "a backstabbing liar". Im not say that you are but I do think that any interwiever would be inclined to think just that if you became too specific in your critisism. But again its important to get "a feel" of the interwiever. If you feel that he tinks that your former company is a great outfit then lay low on your critisism but if you get the opposite feeling then you could be more specific.

If you are still with the company then try to avoid the subject alltogether and if possible to come up with some other explanations: New challenges, better opotunies for advancement or whatever

Best Regards

Morten

 

[JAE]

I manage a small (6 person) structural department in a larger A/E firm and do occasionally interview/hire for my staff needs. From what you've said above, I would suggest the following:

1. Definitely look for an opportunity to communicate to the interviewer specific reasons why you left the other company. Most good interviewers will ask about your work experience and exposure in the other firm to understand your capabilities and limitations. This should be replied with work-only responses, but if the questions steer towards your departure you should take the opportunity to be up-front with the reasons why.

But - stay with facts and avoid descriptive adjectives. Its one thing to call a firm "unethical" and another to specifically describe an instance when you were asked to perform an unethical task. You can speak about how you didn't agree with specific actions and how it compelled you to leave. By staying with facts specific to YOU...you avoid vague, unnecessary slamming of the other firm and show your prospective employer that you are rational, fair, balanced, and honest.

2. Don't worry about the interviewer calling the other firm to get "their side" of the story. You have no control over that in any case and your only task is to remain professional and honest.

3. Also, I don't believe that you are under any legal concern by discussing any practices or issues related to unethical behavior by the previous firm. First, your responses are confidential discussions with a possible employer. Second, you statements, by remaining as factual accounts of WHAT happened to you, are simply the truth. By avoiding characterizations and other inuendo, you should be OK.

 

[RDK]

Disappointed_D

You have a problem.

You also left out some valuable information.

How long did you work for the company? If you worked there a long time why did it take you so long to find out the truth? If your time there was short then it’s not as much of a problem.

How senior was your position? Were you senior enough to really know what was unethical and what was not? Did you know the full story?

In this kind of situation it’s basically your word against the reputation of a successful company. You better have all the necessary documentation ready and be prepared to spend a lot of time and money to prove your claim. The more junior you are the more of a problem you will have. If they are as unethical as you claim, then all the documentation in the world will not help you. They will simply tarnish your reputation and leave you in the dust.

Remember that engineering is somewhat of an inbred profession. If a company is well known in the industry and has a lot of turnover, then you most likely will be interviewed by a former employee of the company, if not a former employee then the friend of one or someone familiar with the company. This might work for you or against you. If the interviewer has had a similar problem with the former company then it’s in your favour. If he had a good experience then it’s a problem.

I am assuming that you are a relatively junior employee who has worked for the company long enough that you cannot simply ignore the time spent there. (I am not suggesting this, as it would in itself be dishonest.) It would only work if you had only worked there for a month or so; otherwise the gap in the resume is a bigger problem. If you left the previous employer for a better opportunity at the problem company then the interviewer will soon find out and you have a credibility problem. The danger in ignoring your employment at the problem company is that if the new company finds out its grounds for immediate termination of employment almost without limit in how long you worked there or how well you were doing.

DO NOT EXHIBIT THE VENOM YOU HAVE SHOWN HERE.

You think that you have been wronged and now are after revenge. Understandable emotions but they have no place in the interview and hiring process.

In an interview situation the interviewer is at first looking for any excuse to shorten the list of candidates to a manageable number. Try picking the best out of 10 or more. You eliminate eight and then pick from two. You eliminate for ANY reason. The only mistake is hiring the wrong person, not in passing on a good candidate. (How will you ever know about that kind of error?)

If I was interviewing you and you told me that your former employer was unethical I would wonder if you were right in your assessment and if you were wrong could you be wrong about me and cause me that kind of grief? Even if you were right could you make a mistake about me? … Next candidate, please.

I would simply state that I left over a difference of opinion and leave it at that if possible. As an interviewer, I would however ask you to elaborate, not because I want to know the dirt on former company but because I want to see how you handle these differences. Alternatively you could say that high turnover was causing poor morale and you felt that a change would be best for you. You could also state that it was a personality conflict that caused you to quit. These things happen and if it appears to be an isolated case then interviewers can sympathise with the circumstances. (We have all been there.)

Don’t lie; just phrase the truth in a way that will not hurt you. Be professional and discrete. Keep any comments specific to what happened to you and not general and vague.

Concentrate on what was good about the problem company. Did you get any good experience that will help you? Even bad experiences can provide good learning experience. (That which does not kill you, only serves to make you stronger.)

If ever faced with a similar situation, and depending on your tolerance levels for this type of behaviour, you will always be faced with situations where you think differently than the senior managers, don’t burn your bridges again. You might never want to go back but you have most likely hurt some people that you left behind and they can, especially if they are as unethical as you state, hurt your future prospects badly.

Geographical mobility, i.e. getting as far away from the problem company as possible, might be a good idea. That way you are less likely to be interviewed by a golfing buddy of your last boss.

Finally, it may take some time to bury this in your past. Research your next employer and try to avoid the same problem next time around. If there is a high turnover then soon there will be nobody there who remembers you and you can stop worrying about a bad reference.

This too, will pass.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[brad]

A possible approach that nobody has mentioned (I agree with the advice given so far).

I left my previous job about two years back. There were issues (clearly valid) which I had with upper management. Not unlike yours, but certainly not at the level which you experienced. I had very well-respected colleagues who understood my situation, and I used them as my references. When I interviewed, I explained some of the issues which I viewed as negatives for me in my (then-current) job, and how I hoped to avoid them in the new job (if hired). I then let my references do the talking for me beyond that. I didn't have to very critical of my company as it had treated me; they did it for me.

You state that there is a lot of employee turnover, largely for the same reasons for which you left. It seems like some of these may make for useful personal references (Let's call one of this "good guys" Rob). If you present a front of somebody who was disappointed (but professional) in the previous job, you haven't yet slammed anybody yourself. If "Joe" (the bad guy at your previous employer) slams you in the context of a reference, then he not only slams you, but may have your interviewer questioning what happened between you. If the interviewer then calls Rob, and Rob says that you were a great guy and left for the reasons he did, but that Joe is a first-rate creep and isn't worthy to hold his job, you're suddenly looking pretty good. The problem is finding somebody like Rob who will bluntly say this for you, if the questions are asked.

Definitely DON'T put somebody up to this; I've actually been in the interviewer's shoes and seen this happen; I detected as much. However, I've also been interviewing people in the same boat as you, and when their "Rob" told me this, it was clear that the employer was dysfunctional (as opposed to employee--YOU).

Brad