Inventor design questions

[rhinopuncher]

Hello forum! I'm trying to find whether an idea that is technically over my head is pursuable, so plz excuse if some questions seem silly or odd. I've put my life on hold to get this stuff figured out so goes without sayn I really appreciate the help. Questions are divided by letter and subdivided by number respectively, plz use in your answer to avoid confusion. Thanks for the help!

A} on leverage and force multiplication
1) If a 12 ft beam has 1,000 lbs at one end, a fulcrum at the 11th ft, and starts a descent from 80 degrees to 0 degrees, how far is the travel of the short end? what is the formula for this to use for different apps?

2) In above example, short end has 11,000 lbs force for its travel, right? If hooked thru linkage to a hydraulic piston, it pushes at 11,000 psi per range of its travel, right? how far is range of travel and how much fluid does that displace?

3)The point of these actions is to create and accumulate as much pressure and displacement of fluid as possible. if enough displacement cannot be created with one piston, than how many pistons can you employ with your 11,000 lbs? How much displacement?

4)Is it more efficient to have fulcrum at two feet at 10,000 lbs for more more short end travel?

B) on hydraulic accumulation
1)Lets say you have 3 hydraulic piston accumulators with 10,000, 15,000, and 20,000 weights respectively that can move independently but are attached to each other. So if 10,000 lb force is applied to 1st piston, it moves per as much force applied.
If 25,000 lb force applied, both 10,000 and 15,000 move up, fluid is displaced to 15,000 accumulator, creates vacuum in 10,000 lb accumulator and free fluid displacement from a reservoir? Same with 45,000 force, both 10,000 and 15,000 weights move up creating vacuum and free fluid displacement?

C) How much much weight is required to push up 50 gallons of water 4 stories up a pipe filled with water via a piston at the bottom?

Thanx for the help!! Probably more questions to come!

 

[HPost]

You have potential energy in the initial mass. How you arrange the system to distribute the energy is up for discussion and based on such things as space available and also ergonomics.

There are also losses mechanical and hydraulic losses to consider. Most of what you have asked is easy to work out, but with so many variables, it's hard to get a fix on the design.

Start by telling us what you want to do, we can then give advice on how to do it.

So far you have only considered energy. What power will be within the system? In other words, how fast will it work?

HPOST

 

[HPost]

I have given this some more thought...

A) The travel at the short end is calculated using the 12" from the fulcrum as a radius. The arc of movement is therefore...24xPI for the circumference. divide that by 360, then multiply by 80 to get the length of the arc. Use trig to find the linear length which is simply sin(80)x12. Linear movement = 11.81". The length of arc movement = 16.75"

A.2) If the hydraulic cylinder has a bore area of 1"^2, then the pressure will be 11,000PSI. The range of travel is 11.81", so with a 1"^2 bore, the cylinder displacement will be 1 x 11.81 = 11.81 Cubic Inches.

A.3) Your initial load at a distance gives you the available power. Pressure x Volume = Power. Your system is not creating power so your pressure and volume ratio can only ever be equal to the input power (11,000 Ft/Lbs).

A.4) The work done will not change, moving the fulcrum will not make the system any more efficient. It's just a question of ergonomics and space.

B) You don't appear to understand how accumulators work. Exactly how are you expecting to move fluid between the accumulators. Have you considered the nitrogen on the other side of the piston. What pre-charge etc...?

C) The mass required is equal to the mass of 50 gallons of water. Lifting the water by 40ft will required energy to overcome gravity. The power required depends the volume.

Part C cannot be confirmed until we understand what you trying to do with the accumulators.

Please explain what you are trying to do and please clarify your comments on the accumulators.

As explained, you have a finite energy resource. How you use that energy is up to you. You need to outline a time frame for all of this to understand the power input. That will also help you put a tighter definition on your cylinder dimensions as 1"^2 is a small cylinder.

More input required all round I think...

Regards

HPost CEng MIMechE

 

[LittleInch]

I agree with HPost - Pverall you are both mixing units and force, pressure, power and energy. They are all different things.

A1 - This is only valid if your force (1000lbs) is acting normally (i.e. 90 degrees)to the end of the beam. The fact you don't say force omplies the 1,000 lbs is a weight. In that case the force at 90 degrees to the end of the beam is yur weight x Cos A, where A is the angle of your beam measured from the horizontal.

I don't understand why you just can't use the initial force to create pressure in a cylnider. Force = Pressure x area, so depending on the area of your piston (A2) you will develop different amounts of pressure. what stays the saem regardelss of all of this is the energy. You can't create it.

A3 - Pressure and displacement as noted above are variables with a fixed summed amount. So for the same amount of energy you can either have high pressure and low volume or low pressure and high volume, BUT NOT BOTH. Think of a trolley jack - the end of your handle has low force (you) pushing down on a small area piston with medium displacement. This creates high pressure which then pushes on a much bigger area (low dispacement) piston, creating multiples of the force at the end of the handle, but with only a small fraction of the movement of the handle ( normally about 100:1). Your 10kg force has been transformed into 100 kg force on the first piston and at 10:1 difference in area of the piston, 1000kg force lifting the vehicle, but for an arc of 100cm, a movement of only 1cm in the final piston.

Hence you need multiple pumping action (you) to lift your vehicle a few inches off the ground. Your energy in moving the handle has created potential energy in the vehicle by lifing it against the force of gravity.

I think until you get your head around this and can sketch out your system or bit you're having trouble with then it will be difficult to help further.

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way