Is copper theft worth a life? 2

[jraef]

As many of you in the electrical industry know, theft of copper wire (and even bus bar) has become a big problem all over as the value of scrap copper has gone up. There are increasing reports of wire theft from equipment in some remote areas, even people stripping wire out of street light circuits in cities and suburbs. The most disturbing outgrowth of this however has been the recent trend of people attempting to steal cable from substations thinking that insulated tools will protect them. We just had that happen at our local substation last week. If this is something that has happened in your area, consider sharing this presentation with local authorities and community awareness programs. This person apparently assumed that cutting the ground cable on a transformer would be "safe".

WARNING! THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC!

http://www.electricalknowledge.com/images/HiVoltageShock.pps

JRaef.com
Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[itsmoked]

Badness!!! I agree!

My feeling is generally that I wish all thieves were exterminated... We should be able to leave our $2K mountain bike unlocked somewhere and have it be there when we come back.

This is a case of auto-extermination.

But that is pretty harsh..

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[electricpete]

nasty.

What would be the nature of the hazard of cutting the neutral? Breaking an inductive circuit with current flowing in neutral due to unbalance in a three-phase system?

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[jraef]

Must have been, but who knows? The details were irrelevent to the offender anyway. This presentation apprently came from a utility and was used in a training session for their own line workers as a warning to the effect of "Don't assume anything".

JRaef.com
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[rmw]

I saw a lineman with his gloved hand (after he explained the precautions taken to maintain the insulating integrity of the rubber gloves) grab 6140V. I heard the noise it made. I have had a healthy respect for HV ever since.

Regarding the link, seems a high price to pay for a few pounds of scrap copper, but right now, I think they would walk right by gold so they could steal copper. A/C condensers are very popular in our area too.

rmw

 

[ccjersey]

Our local REA had a theft of line problem several years ago until the guilty party was electrocuted. He was shooting down neutral wires on transmission lines, rolling it up and selling it. One day he got a hot wire by mistake and it killed him. there have been no more thefts in that manner.

 

[itsmoked]

ccjersey; You're saying the guy selectively stole just neutrals?!?! If so that must've been nasty to the users.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[waross]

Some years ago there was a picture in a Central American newspaper of a dead cowboy laying next to his dead horse. Thieves had been stealing power line cables (Probably by cutting the cables with rifle fire). The poor vacaro got too close to a hot end laying on the ground.
They "forgot" him and the horse he rode in on.

Back to jraef's original post:
Could the capacitive effect of the ungrounded transformer start a persistent arc to ground that may not have been seen by the protective relays?

yours

 

[ccjersey]

itsmoked,
I guess it just converted to SWER distribution each time he cut the neutral. For all I know, he was branching out to hot wires when he got hit. Most of this was lines down through the woods into camphouses, wells for livestock and other remote services.

They have converted a lot of wire to aluminum lately, but there's still a lot of 3? stranded, HARD Copper and ? alloy wire out there. Cannot imagine it would be very popular with recyclers, and it has to be obvious to anyone the stuff has to be stolen. Where else would anyone who is not a utility legitimately come up with that wire?

The aluminum sure is stronger, In the last hurricanes, there were several places where the lines held up trees that would have certainly gone right through the old wire.

 

[peebee]

A friend of mine works on the NY subways. Apparently those who have made those tunnels their homes have learned that the current only flows in the cables feeding the rails when the trains go by. No train, whip out the saw and cut away. Stop sawing when the train comes, though...

 

[unclesyd]

Headline on Pensacola News Journal today:

"Stealing Copper may cost a life"

Gulf Power officials told investigators that they received a 7000 amp surge at substation. They told investigators that the person who received the jolt is cooked. "Deadman a Walking". The investigators say that the suspect's fingers melted his prints into the paint, he was that hot.

There have been 3 reported deaths in the from electrocution in this area this year. The latest thing is stealing large air conditioning units from businesses.

 

[MikeHalloran]

A former employer in Hialeah lost something like 20 rooftop condensers to junkies before finding a cage that was strong enough to resist their efforts.






Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[jraef]

My personal belief is that scrap dealers need to be held more accountable. For instance, requiring a form of ID and log book for all scrap copper sellers, similar to what pawn brokers are required to do. It won't stop it all, but it moves the violators into the same risk category as stolen goods fences, which will likely drive down the price they are willing to pay for the copper from suspicious characters.

JRaef.com
Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[MikeHalloran]

Regulating copper dealers may not help.

Around here, it's not unusual to see a seedy character riding down the street on a bicycle, loaded with the entire remains of an aluminum carport.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[mc5w]

Most of the NYC subways have underrunning 3rd rail with a wooden or some other insulator over the top of the rail for safety reasons. But, I can see why contactors were installed so that the 3rd rail does not need to be energized all of the time. Increases safety and decreases loss due to current leaks.

I wish that I had used high voltage on my bike when we were living in Park Forest Illinois south of Chicago so that it would not have been stolen. Chicago is the most theiving town in the U.S. Maybe not enough to blow an arm off but enough to get the message across like with a cattle fence.

Mike Cole

 

[ScottyUK]

mike,

Slightly OT (ok, miles and miles OT)

If you have problems with theft in your area you will love this site:

http://www.stickdeath.com

Check out the anti-auto theft animations. If only life imitated art...


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[itsmoked]

Man... That is one seedy malware ridden site...

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[subtech]

I have absolutly no sympathy for anyone who would try to steal copper wire or bus from a substation.
What bothers me most about this sad state of affairs is that some lineman or substation worker who is just trying to do their job and keep the lights on is going to wind up dead as a result of some "meth addict" and his handy work.
Where I work, we had another meeting just yesterday to remind everyone about not touching ANYTHING until a thorough check is made to make sure that it is still connected to the ground grid. This includes the fences and gates at all stations.
I don't know what it is going to take to stop this madness, but whatever that solution may be, I hope it begins soon.

 

[EEJaime]

One would think that someone wom expends the amount of energy and single mindedness some of these thieves display should be able to get a job doing something other than stealing these materials. We had a new high school campus under construction, 8 buildings, 250,000 sf of building. Over a single weekend, they cut off all panel feeders at the slab line. They pulled out thousands of feet of wire, both 600V cable and 15kV cable between manholes and pad mounted transformers, and even dug up about 500 lf of 2" copper water line which had been sanded over but not backfilled.

Don't ask me where the "full time security guard" was during all this. Probably holding a flashlight for them if you ask me, but this all occurred between 4pm on a Friday and 6am on a Monday. Incredible.

 

[itsmoked]

Oh man... That blows!! Wish it had been live. That will be a fun one to hash out with the customer and insurance.. Yuck.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com