Job Offer Negotiation 1

[Noway2]

A search on the topic of negotiating job offers shows that is has been discussed here before, but it has been a while. Today I received an job offer that I had been waiting for.

The salary is within my acceptable range, but near the bottom of it. Based on the job postings, the offer appears to be near, but not at the top of their range. The offer puts me back salary wise where I was at the end of 2007, which is a figure I was comfortable at before I accepted my present arrangement. The job is at a public institution and I would become a state employee and the information is based upon the public posting. There is also the likelihood of school tuition coverage for me and my family (I need to confirm), which means that I would finish my graduate work and my wife would get her degree.

I am currently working away from home during the week and make a 3.5 hour commute on Fridays and Mondays and this would allow me to return home every day. The costs of the week day living expenses that I would no longer incur would make up about 2/3 to 3/4 of the salary difference. Combined with the lower cost of health coverage and other incidental expenses associated with being away from home, I figure the salary to be about a wash.

The question I have, and want to revisit is should I attempt to negotiate on the salary or should I accept the offer as is? I do not want to risk the offer being rescinded, because it represents a quality of life / happiness improvement to me and my family.

I also strongly suspect that I was not initially considered in their employment search due being out of their salary range but decided to contact me and learned that I was flexible to within their range.

Given the market conditions and the importance of the position to me, should I try to negotiate or should I be happy with the fact that I am being offered a figure I can live with and run to the bank with it?

 

[ajack1]

If you negotiate and get a better deal it is the right decision, if you negotiate and lose the job it is the wrong decision. You can only really go with your gut feeling from the interview. I am not sure anyone here can give you sound advice.

 

[TJOrlowski]

Being that it's a state job, there may be several layers of beaurocracy in the negotiation process: the person you negotiate with may not have any decision making powers.

There may not even be any ROOM for negotiation. If your state is anything like my state, the pay and benefits are what they are, determined by the position. Experience in industry, and/or how well you interviewed are non-factors.

-TJ Orlowski

 

[MiketheEngineer]

A bird in the hand - is worth two in the bush....

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

I agree with ajack1. Only you can decide.

If you have other offers pending, it might be worth the risk. If not ...

Also, you gave them a range ... they came back at the bottom end of that range. Are you surprised?
Lesson for next time ... don't give a low end you don't want to accept.

 

[Noway2]

I am short on time at the moment for a lengthy response, but I first want to say that I appreciate everyone's input and comments. They are really reflecting what is in my head at the moment and it is helpful to "think out loud", shall we say.

I would like to address CorBlimeyLimey's comment though. I did not give them a $$ range specifically. I knew the position range per the posting and said that the upper end of that range is within my range. I anticipated that the range would be anywhere between what it is and about 3% higher, which a heavy weighting towards the figure that they offered.

 

[JMirisola]

Stop thinking so hard about it. So long as the salary isn't going to cripple you financially, take the job. Isn't a little less salary a small price to pay to be home and improve your quality of life?

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Design Manager/Senior Designer
M9 Defense
My Blog

 

[ctopher]

I was hired for a company 4 years ago. They seemed they really wanted me.
So, I turned down the first offer and counter-offered about 15% more. They countered 11% more, I accepted.
If they seem they really want you, does not hurt to try.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[MintJulep]

Government jobs can be strange. You need to find out if it's better to start at the low or high end of a grade, and if there is overlap in grade salary ranges.

Then you can negotiate not only salary, but starting grade too.

At any rate, state jobs are typically about the pension, not the salary. The real trick is to find out how best to work the system to retire with the highest possible pension.

 

[tygerdawg]

Personally, quibbling over a couple percentage points of salary to eliminate a not-at-home-with-family work situation with 3.5 hour weekend commute is...um...misguided .

Here's a strategy I used before: tell them you're very interested, but.... and ask if they could at least sweeten the offer to <some number> or maybe some extra vacation days.

I have also in the past taken an offer that was lower because of different type of work, not working for evil boss, shorter commute, other reasons. It turned out that it was the best salaried position of my career and I was much much happier and actually wanted to wake up in the morning because it meant that I got to go to work, although I was making a couple percentage points less in salary. Big deal. I had a smile on my face, my family was much less stressed because Dad wasn't unhappy.


TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[Noway2]

I spent a fair amount of time reviewing the salary grades, job descriptions and classifications and used this to evaluate their offer. Based on that information I think that they are making a fair offer. The offer also leaves some room for "reclassification" and advancement, should I obtain my PE or an advanced degree (both of which I am considering) without requiring an "act of congress".

As the offer is both fair and represents a substantial improvement in quality of life, I have decided that I am going to accept the offer as it stands.

Again, I would like to thank everyone for the input and insights which have really helped me to reach a decision.

 

[ctopher]

Tyger,
It's not misguided, just a different option.

Noway2,
Good luck to you. I hope the position works out for you, and congrat's!

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[Ron]

Take it! You can get your P.E. and advance degree. If you find you would prefer the private sector, you can leave then. Keep in mind that gov't. retirement programs are usually great! You might even get both....stay long enough to be vested in the gov't. retirement then move to private sector. The time will pass before you know it. As Nike says "Just Do It"!

 

[graybeach]

There may be an online database of public employee salaries for your state. There is one for NY. See if you can check on some similar titles to the one you are being considered for.

 

[mechengdude]

There should be no expectation of losing a job offer simply by making a counter offer. The key is to make a reasonable counter offer in writing with justification. The intent is not to present an ultimatum. Simply something to the effect that "I think I'm worth $XXXXX and I would like to start as soon as possible at salary X and I look forward to hearing from you.
At this point no one except the hiring authority knows what constraints are associated with the salary. Maybe that’s as high as they can go. Maybe there’s a ton of extra money. Maybe they will hire you at their proposed salary and not give you a raise for two years. Asking intelligent questions about the budget and raises associated with your salary shouldn't be approached with fear. It's just another part of the process. Good luck.

 

[KENAT]

Most folks above have made their points and counter points and there's some good stuff as well as some I'm not so sure I'd agree with, but I tend to be a bit risk averse on employment questions.

So instead I'm coming at this from being in the position of working away from home in the week like you, with a similar length commute Monday & Thursday (so better off than you in some ways). I've been doing it since end of 05.

So long as I could live on the offer I'd take it.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[TDAA]

Noway2, congrats on accepting. I did not see this in time to weigh in, but I would have made the same choice.

I am in the same position as you, except a 5 hour commute and I am still waiting on the offer.

When that offer comes, the quality of life will be an important factor, but I also expect it to be in an appropriate range.

 

[MedicineEng]

One strategy that has worked for me twice is to negotiate in the following fashion: accept their proposal with a extraordinary salary increase usually 8-12% higher(say 3 or 6 months down the road) if they find the performance satisfactory. Like that they reduce the risk of overpaying someone that they dont'know and you show your flexibility and commitment on doing a good job.