Joining the P.Eng. Association of Quebec (OIQ), worth the investment / effort? 2

[rotw]

Hi All,

I am in the process of submitting an application to register as professional in Quebec, but I am still thinking if it is worth it or not, some points to consider:

- Foreign diplomas problem. As I have received my BS/MSc. degrees outside of Canada / and not part of the Washington Accord, it is not taken for granted that my application will be accepted straight away; if that is the case, the next step would be that the association will ask to review the work experience. That is headeache too, because previous employers will be required to fill in paperworks and they are not always willing to do this. If the outcome of experience review is still not positive, then I'll be asked to go back to school in order to catch up on courses (eventually this will be for them to define). I am not too much worried about the syllabus because it is quite extensive, but I feel my GPA could pose problem ; for the MSc GPA is quite high but that is not the case for my BSc. some low scores were custom in my former university but it is not the norm in Canada.

- High costs involved. I will have to pay ~900 CAD for the application and there can be extra along the way / all are NOT refundable. Let alone the credentials evaluation / comparison which needs to be done in paralled that costed me already ~500 CAD (which I need anyway). I am also not including membership contribution etc, should my application be accepted.

- Personal strategy. It seems to be difficult/complicated to make it through APEGA, APEGBC, etc. To me registering via Quebec seems to be more doable (I may be wrong) in regard to my French native language skills and their requirements which appear to have been relaxed since May 2018. So I have no objections joining Quebec to work there but my primary goal is once I could make via Quebec I could be much better positionned for registration with APEG (English speaking provinces in general).

Questions:
- This is a big/costly investment for me. Do you see that the benefits will be compensating the financial burden? do you think this will make a big difference in terms of me landing a job in my field of expertise here in Canada (should my application be accepted, I will not yet be a P.Eng but will have a registration number in OIQ and most importantly a shot for P.Eng designation after one year of work under supervision).

Thanks in advance

 

[oldestguy]

A difficult problem. In the States there are several organizations that engineers join. Usually the annual fee is something like $50+/-. The benefits , besides meeting other engineers, is that some of the members also own or are top management of contracting firms. Knowing these folks has opportunities for getting engineering jobs, especially once one is on his own. However, early on they have seminars and other educational opportunities to help one along in his development as an engineer. Some of these essi0ns have credit toward annual continuing education requirements. HOWEVER, I question forking out that much cash, especially early on in my career. I'd however, look to see if Canadians can also be members of any such groups in the USA. For one thing, I'd bet there is an ASCE branch in your area that may be useful for the purposes I mentioned above.

 

[miningman]

Do you wish to practice legally in Quebec??? If so, you have no choice but to register there. If yo wish to practice in Western Canada, you have no choice but to register in one of the western provinces. Your circumstances are not unique, and getting foreign credentials recognized is not overly onerous.

 

[drawoh]

rotw,

A recruiter just asked me the benefits of being a PEng. I am a certified engineering technologist (CET). I told him that certain things are legally required to be signed off by a licensed PEng. If you are a non-engineering manager (MBA?), hiring a PEng to be in charge of design, is due diligence. The PEng says that you passed peer review. This is more important if you do not have a Canadian engineering degree.

Lots of manufacturing firms don't care about the PEng. It depends on where you want to work.

--
JHG

 

[rotw]

drawoh,
I would like to work in the field of machinery / rotating equipment. In the past, I used to stamp documentation (as I was responsible engineer) but I was practicing in a country where engineering profession was not regulated; i.e. the diploma was necessary/sufficient.

miningman,
I understand the legal part of this. I suppose I am not at that point yet. Now I am trying to land a job at first and something which would be not too much off the mark in regard to my core discipline. I've seen that some job ads requires P.Eng as an obligation, for some others it is not the case or just stated as a strong preference. Question is would a P.Eng designation increases my chances ? to this I suppose a general answer would be yes - but then by how many folds (from your experience)...since there is quite some money involved.

oldestguy,
yes will check this point (ASCE). Thanks.

 

[jayrod12]

Most employers I know would accept P.Eng eligible in lieu of already registered. If you've received it elsewhere in the states, then it really shouldn't be an issue here as the accreditation requirements are extremely similar on each side of the border.

 

[moltenmetal]

If you are a foreign-trained engineer, you can claim to employers that you're P.Eng. elligible, and employers may accept your claim, or not.

If you have a P.Eng., it's not an issue.

Many employers, rightly or wrongly, use the P.Eng. as a way to determine that someone else has sorted your credentials and experience out from the tens of thousands here who claim to be every bit as much of an engineer as you are, but who lack the ability to demonstrate that to the satisfaction of qualified examiners.

This leads to the old "no experience- no license, no license- no job hence no experience" catch-22 that many foreign trained engineers find themselves in on immigrating to Canada.

In Ontario, if you meet all the requirements (experience and educational review plus ethics and law exam plus any tech exams if assigned) EXCEPT for the mandatory year of experience mentored by an Ontario licensee, you can obtain a "provisional license". that serves the same purpose as the full P.Eng. as far as employers being concerned about your credentials.

Can an unlicensed engineer or non-engineer work as an engineer in Quebec? Doubtless thousands do- they have something akin to the certificate of authorization process there no doubt. I'm not licensed in Quebec so I'm not sure.

 

[rotw]

moltenmetal,

Thanks for this feedback.

"If you are a foreign-trained engineer, you can claim to employers that you're P.Eng. elligible, and employers may accept your claim, or not."

I have CEng (Chartered Engineer) designation (more focused on EU/UK/Middle East) still have to start from square one.
I get your point and will keep that in mind. Thanks.

 

[moltenmetal]

Because the Chartered Engineer designation is familiar in Canada, you will have an easier time than some in terms of convincing employers that you're eligible for future licensure, which as I said, employers are using as a proxy for educational/credential qualification. They just cannot know accurately the varying quality of the thousands of degree-granting institutions worldwide, so they have to look to someone who does to sort it out for them. But you'll have a much easier time if you actually have a P.Eng. license issued by OIQ.

 

[drawoh]

moltenmetal,

What does "eligible for licensure" mean? I know a Pole who emigrated to Canada and applied for his PEng. He was given a list of courses to take. He is a PEng now. Was he eligible when he first applied?

The title "Professional Engineer" is a legally sensitive one. The best way to answer the question is "yes" or "no".

--
JHG

 

[moltenmetal]

What the employer wants to know is whether you'll be able to get a license if you need one after a year's mentored experience, or will they potentially have to wait for you to write ten 3-hour technical exams that are scheduled only once per year and may take you years to pass? They also want to know if you graduated from a program at all like the ones in Canada, or from a program which was really a 2 yr technician's cert plus 2 yrs of political indoctrination? Ontario's Provisional License means that the candidate has met all the education review committee and experience review committee's requirements- all exams passed, including ethics and law- and only needs that year of locally mentored experience to get the license. This gets candidates out of the catch 22 of no license no job no experience no license.

 

[Sparweb]

rotw,
Just my story: The APEGS finished my registration before APEGGA started processing my application.
To complete my registration with APEGS, the registrar phoned me, and we carried out a very interesting and enlightening interview for about an hour.
To start my registration with APEGGA, a frazzled administrator called me up and insisted on immediate answers to a bunch of pointless questions.
I have withdrawn my application to APEGGA.
It is not important that I do not live in Saskatchewan.
Though in my case, I work in a federally regulated industry, so having a provincial rubber stamp is about as useful as an iron ring on my finger in a machine shop.

APEGS has a "Professional Licensee" category.

PS: I would make no decisions based on spoken language. Having the license is worth the cost, but it doesn't matter which province you start with, unless you require a specific province's registration to directly work in that specific province as a qualification for a specific job.