Just Because I Work In Civil Engieering Do I Have To Be Civil

[RjMelbourne]

Ladies and Gents

I am not an engineer but I am a Senior Civil Designer/Draftsperson for a large engineering firm. I have designed projects large and small and have been accepted by the senior partners and directors as knowing what I am doing and been placed as head of a design team.

Over the last few years the company put on a couple graduate engineers and I worked with them teaching them what university didn’t, and showing them how the industry works in the real world. Over time the graduates have been promoted higher through the food chain as they are qualified engineers. This I do not have a problem with, it was always to be expected. But I am human and do not like being dumped on from above.

The now promoted one of the promoted grads tells the new graduates under my wing that I have no idea what I am talking about and they should talk to management about being placed under and engineer as quote "What could he possibly know he is only a glorified draftsman" this being true I am only a draftsman I would not take to much notice. But now its every day I hear this and I am finding that the new little ducks listen to him. Yet I find the graduate that came up through the ranks with him and still works in my design team although having being promoted still come for advise and respects what I have to offer.

Is it just my patients are wearing thin, or do I just have to accept that what he tells people are true I am a glorified draftsman ?

 

[HVACctrl]

Perhaps you two just have personality conflicts and he's being a total jerk about it- and unprofessional too. Try not to let it bother you. That's easy for me to say, but I have been in horrible situations like that as well and I had a very difficult time dealing with people who go out of their way to undermine others.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[MadMango]

Maybe it is a case of you educating the new engineers about the "trees", when management feels it is the "forest" that is more important. They may see it as a wasted education or lost time on the clock.

Unless the other party comes to you and tells you to stop, I'd continue with your knowledge-sharing.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[JAE]

This is a tough situation.

I would think that you are indeed a very experienced designer and probably know a lot in your field. You can't work on a daily basis in the engineering field and not learn a lot over time; much of it extremely valuable to the company.

But our societies have created certain checks and requirements on engineering services to help the public ensure that only qualified people are designing their engineering systems. Since you haven't gone through the steps of this qualifying process (I know its only paper diplomas but it's the long-standing best way that the public can ensure qualified design), you are thus limited in your external value to the company and thus others with the necessary qualifications get promoted and you don't.

This doesn't mean that you know less than these newly promoted engineers. It doesn't mean that you are less valuable to the company. It doesn't mean that you are a glofified draftsman.

But it does mean that some don't appreciate your value and this allows these promoted engineers to slam you a bit. (I'm a licensed engineer so I respect the license - but in this case I'm not sure I respect their behavior or wisdom.). Others up higher should be reminded of your value - how to "remind" them without appearing as a raunchy self-promoter is the tough part.

I've seen this case numerous times - young graduate engineers not getting along too well with older, experienced non-graduates. There is a natural friction that develops.

You on the one hand don't appreciate the egos that sometimes comes along with these younger graduates.

They are trying to validate their degrees and own self-worth and must...must rise above those who they feel aren't as talented, educated, etc. as they are.

Damn young whippersnappers...

 

[HVACctrl]

Another thing to consider: The promoted guy is a jerk. The new ducks follow him because he is more or less the person they identify with the most (degree and all, etc...). They may not agree with him but they may be too weak and uncertain in their own worth to cause a fuss. So they naturally follow him- the blind leading the blind.

I had an almost exact opposite scenario. I worked with two technicians who called themselves engineers. I didn't have a problem with that. They were more exeriecned than me and I respected theor knowledge. I respected them as human beings as well. As soon as either one of them got me alone- out of earshot of others (on a jobsite, etc...) they would treat me like dog crap. They would talk to me worse than my drill sergeants did in basic training. I was floored. Sometimes I backed down out of fear of being fired, not by them directly, but they had been there a LONG time. This was a mistake because it demonstrated weakness which they ate up. A couple of times I gave it right back to them.

In the end I couldn't deal with their cynical, hateful, disrespectful ways. I couldn't deal with their niceness in front of the boss and their assinine ways behind everyone's backs. It was as though they were bipolar. So I left the company. It wasn't just that that made me leave- there were several factors.

Some people are just neanderthal in nature. There's no getting around it. Is there someone in your company who you can confide in to help you through the BS? Not to talk behind their backs or anything but just to help you see things from another perspective?

BTW, when I posted on here my issue described above I got slammed and scrutinized by others on the board who perhaps identified me with someone they came across in their career.

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[JStephen]

When you just get one side of a story, it's hard to make an accurage judgment about what is going on.

It's possible that the people you're working with are being unreasonable. On the other hand, I've run into a fair number of non-engineers who thought they knew it all, too.

You might find this thread of interest in showing different sides of this kind of thing. It's not engineer-vs-designer but engineer-vs-contractor, but some of the same issues crop up there.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=140019

 

[Ussuri]

I have always felt that the engineering field is one of the most non-ageist fields to work in. Experience is so often more important than education.

A university education demonstrates to an employer that an individual has the ability to learn. Engineering is such a vast field you cannot learn anything more than the very basics at university, and in most cases these are taught out of context so when a young graduate starts work, they may have been taught something relevant but because it's in a different context they dont realise.

That is where experience comes in. I work with a number of designers, both experienced and other less so. An experienced designer is a godsend on a project as they have picked up a lot of my mistakes because they work in the detail. They make suggestions to my details which in 90% of the cases are improvements, and i thank them for that. Thats how a team works. That said they do not always understand the engineering reasons a detail was designed in a certain way. I think that becomes the crux of the situtation. When a designer begins to make engineering descisions without the technical understanding to back it up.

In my opinion a good designer is better on a project team than an average engineer. As Clint Eastwood said " A man's got to know his limitations"