Just how complicated is SmartPlant 3D? 1

[dozer]

I'm kind of curious about the level of difficulty of SmartPlant 3D. I'm not a designer, but I hear them talking about how difficult things are quite often. The latest thing I heard about is we were going to upgrade everyone to Office 2013 but the SP3D guys spoke up and said that have to use Office 2010 otherwise their SP3D reports get all goofed up. We've got one guy who has two computers because his SP3D workstation won't run email or something (I forget exactly). I'm always hearing tales of woe like this and stories of why they can't do this or that or how difficult something is going to be.

Is SP3D really that complicated and unwieldy? If so, what makes it such a desirable package? I run some pretty powerful FEA programs so I get with much power comes higher levels of complexity but I don't get why SP3D is so popular when you have to jump through all these hoops. I would be interested to hear other people's slant on SP3D.

 

[Gator]

I've heard that two SP3D admins are needed for each piping designer/layout person. I'm only partly joking.

As I recall, many of these sophisticated "do-everything" plant design software packages are somewhat finicky (or maybe it's the support people who are resistant to change - that would be ironic) and opaque. But that's one aspect of complex software like this (as you allude to); finding out exactly why something isn't working can be very difficult.

Years ago PDS was the ne-plus ultra software that everyone wanted to learn and get paid lots of money to work with. Perhaps I'm dense or something but after getting a quick walk-through of it once it didn't seem much different from Autoplant or other 3D piping software.

I don't know how much feedback from knowledgeable SP3D people you'll get here amongst the engineers.

 

[europipe]

I've hasd the course with all my collegaes, now five years later we're still not working with it,
and we spoiled a gigantical lot of hours.
The company had a fantastic application called Plantview,
and replaced it by SP3D and it had cost the company millions..
Now we're working with pencil again (like 15 years ago) .

 

[dozer]

Europipe, are you sure we're talking about the same thing? I googled Plantview and found a program by AspenTech called "Plant View" that enables you to view plant data and compare it to simulations, not layout piping, equipment, and structures. Is that the program that you replaced with SP3D?

 

[europipe]

No, it was a program what was followed by PDMS.
I think PDMS is a lot better than SP3D.
Yes, I googled too, but aspentech got nothing to do with it.
I didn't replace anything, the big company did.
Maybe there are more designers here that also work for that big company?

 

[Gator]

europipe, are you referring to PlantSpace (now called or replaced by OpenPlant, apparently):

http://communities.bentley.com/products/plant/design___engineering/f/5927/t/11151

 

[europipe]

Gator, no, Plantview was the precursor of PDMS.
Dow collegeas will know.

 

[Gator]

Ahh, OK. It looks like PlantView is/was a viewing/visualization/review program for Aveva's (which used to be called Cadcentre*) PDMS with similar functions to, say, NavisWorks or SmartPlant Review. Being able to perform real-time facility walkthroughs might be the best quick way to convey what these programs do.

I don't see how it was a "precursor" to PDMS, though.

* In the 3D plant design software world you often can't tell the players without a scorecard.

Here are some paragraphs written a few years ago by a friend of mine:

 

[europipe]

Gator, because it stopped approxx. 6 years ogo, while it didn't work under windows anymore.
Don't know why there is no information on the internet, maybe other Dow Chemical engineers can react here?

 

[KevinNZ]

We spent a large amount of time and money on moving to a 3D piping package and in the end had to write of the whole thing off. Lost our biggest client in the process too.

You must go into these things with your eyes open. Talk to other users in your industry. These packages do not suite everyone.

 

[europipe]

Some people think a person can work with a computerprogram,
that he is an expert in piping also, I've seen that fault too much.

 

[dozer]

Gator, thanks for the history write-up from your friend. That is interesting. Europipe, I think the problem with programs like SP3D is you have to be a pipe designer AND a computer expert. Not a lot of those around.

 

[Gator]

These 'do-all' 3D design systems are great when properly set up and operated, but the biggest issues are the up-front and operating costs which restrict them to pretty much the biggest projects and large engineering companies. Sometimes I suspect that the companies that make the software aim to become EPC firms themselves.

"I think the problem with programs like SP3D is you have to be a pipe designer AND a computer expert."

The current trend is of course building the "knowledge" into the software and having less-experienced people do the piping routing.

I have some other documents that I should, uh, 'sanitize' and upload into this thread for some further insight into.

And there's this:

http://www.bicmagazine.com/departme...ction/using-process-plant-engineering-models/

as well as this:

http://www.bicmagazine.com/departme...ticeship-tools-erase-tried-and-true-training/

 

[europipe]

dozer, maybe you are right about the computerexpert, but like Gator sais, this in't the way.
I worked with Plantview, autocad 3D-Autopipe, PDMS and that went well, why shouldn't SP3D work that way?

 

[Gator]

Found this in my files, it is from a few years ago and I can't vouch for its veracity:

 

[Gator]

Here's some writing on piping/plant design software that may be of interest from a chapter called 'CAD, Task Automation and the Plant Design Process' that didn't make it into the book (but may be included in some form in the second edition if we ever get around to it):

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]