keeping Spreadsheets within the office 5

[Qshake]

All -

It's apparent that we all use spreadsheets in our everyday work. Some of us work in very competitive markets so let me ask how others keep spreadsheets within the workplace?

Do you have a method?
No method, just trust?
Leave it to the overall general policy about intellectual theft?
Passwords? Are they enough?

thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards,
Qshake

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[bpeirson]

I agree with making the spreadsheet user unfriendly. My methods are thus:

1. The main spreadsheet is used as a template which derives information from three other spreadsheets. This means that if all 4 spreadsheets are not used together the user will lose all or partial functionality.

2. The main spreadsheet uses 2 functions which reside on a custom add-in so if the add-in is not copied and installed the user has no functionality.

3. Due to poor programming practices and a 3 year evolution the code will crash if the folder/file structure is changed. I have little or no error handling depending on the specific function and redundant coding so if a bad line is remodelled there is probably a dupicate lurking around somewhere to trip them up later.

4. The main sheet has about 40 dynamic named ranges. If a user cracks the password and then deletes what appears to be unimportant text then the named ranges will point to a different cell because the text was acting as a place holder.

5. The main spreadsheet is designed to remove a specific set of formulae upon completion of calculations, if the spreadsheet is not installed as a template then functionality is lost after 1 use. There is no "Undo" after running VBA and most people won't realise what has happened until after they have saved the changes.

Most of these methods I have stumbled upon and I am now actively trying to eliminate. Some can be purposely put in place. I favor the dynamic named range, the place holder can be text noting ownership or an empty cell which must have somthing typed in.

 

[bltseattle]

(bpeirson, I especially like your #3 tactic)

Since my earlier post I've found that Excel 2003 and later offers what MS calls Information Rights Management that on the surface appears it could address this issue through use of permissions.

Here is the MS info about this approach:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/workessentials/HP062208591033.aspx

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel/HA011098061033.aspx

Has anyone tried using permissions and/or expiring files ala this built-in functionality?

 

[handleman]

bpeirson:
Hilarious! 1/2 star for the "user unfriendliness" tips and 1/2 for the ability to put positive spin on the things you "stumbled upon" and are now trying to eliminate...

;-)

 

[IRstuff]

Qshake,

Your basic premise seems off. If your competitors are getting your sheets, then it's an inside job. That means that whoever is passing on the sheets already has access to them and most likely, will have the need to have the passwords that unlock the sheets.

So who are you willing to trust with whatever you come up with? How do you know that your own principals aren't selling the stuff out for some pocket change, or are simply giving them away for some unpublicized quid pro quo?

Rather than going with a single centralized program, for which you have no traceability to the person that is stealing the intellectual property (IP), you might consider some means of individuallizing the code with some sort of digital signature that will allow you to determine who passed the sheet to the outside. You might consider digitally signing each copy of the code assigned to each engineer. There may be ways of watermarking the sheets directly or through some apparently innocuous digits tacked onto results that are specific to a particular user.

TTFN

 

[AHay]

Here are a few more suggestions that you may want to consider:

1) Move a core piece of functionality into a separate DLL and call that from VBA. This will make it harder for your competition to crack your code.

2) Big copyright notice on the spreadsheet and even more in the code. Slip in some deliberate errors (never called) and spelling mistakes into the code so that if someone does steal it and claim ownership you can easily spot what originally came from you. Doesn't stop them from taking it, but might get you some money if you are willing to take them to court.

3) Look at obfuscating some of the VBA source - probably cheaper and easier just to compile as DLL though.

4) In the compiled or obfuscated section, check for software license or connect to an internet server to authenticate. This may just alienate your users though.

If someone wants to steal it they can and will, you just need to put something in the way to slow them down.

On the subject of IP ownership, you may find that your company legally owns these spreadsheets. I can't find the link now, but I read of a similar case where a guy developed code at home, on his own machine, with his own software to help him at work. When he left his job the company claimed ownership. The courts sided with the company saying that the software was an essential tool for the job and so belonged to the company.

Don't take legal advise from us, consult with an expert if you want to be sure.

 

[Qshake]

IRstuff -

Not an inside job, we watch carefully what we send out. The incident that has created this concern follows:

Unbeknownst to me another competing firm was working on the same stretch of highway with a number of structures. After having an employee leave us for that other firm, we received a note from our client who while reviewing plans noted that xyz company had the same error in the plans we did, isn't that something they remarked. The error came from one of our spreadsheets that failed to put output in a cell that would ultimately transfer to the plans. The spreadsheet is very elaborate and saves much time from old hand calculations.

It irks me that someone is dishonest and would take what is not rightfully theirs.

Since that incident I've been searching for ways to impede such a incident again.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[IRstuff]

Based on your description, it was technically an inside job. The person was a former employee who stole it during his employment.

Then you need to write the VBA or VB or other macros that isolate the sheet itself and make it completely inaccessible to ANY user. That also means that no one can check the calculations independently. It also means that you have to assign someone to do the maintenance on the sheet that you can absolutely trust, and that same someone will now need to be the tech support for the entire company when people use that sheet.

Frankly, I think it's more trouble than it's worth. IP is not something that can be placed under lock and key. Its very nature requires free exchange. Preventing that free exchange makes the IP more difficult to use and less useful. Think how much harder it would be to track down your known bug had the sheet been buried under layers of indirection, macros, and locks.

TTFN

 

[HCBFlash]

How about a direct approach which will penalize the offender and make others wary?

- inform the client directly with your observations, offer supporting evidence of your firms legitimate ownership and encourage them to speak to the competitors upper management about it.

- speak with your attorney about this, but don't ask for his/her permission.

- directly contact your competitors upper management and tell them of your observations and objections.

Alternately, consider sharing of other resources or at least another specific resource as a sort of compensation. Is it impossible to have "friendly competitors"? If competition has produced animosity from its intensity somebody needs to do some soul-searching.

This may be more appropriately posted in the ethics section, but these methods must also be considered as part of a technical solution to what is in fact a social/moral problem.

 

[VAD]

Interesting stuff.

Several years ago we did not worry about mobility of information from ones office too much, althiough it was aconcern. With more advanced computing machines and the need to have all stff on board etc the problem has increased so much that one has to live with it to some extent.

To be specific if an employee develops a spreadsheet on comopany's time that is beneficial to the company, I see no reason why on leaving that employee cannot use the spreadsheet at another employer. Even if he goes out without anything in his hand etc you cannot deprogram the brain unless you give him a pill to forget. He can create the spreadsheet again.

If an employee is provided a spreadsheet by the company to undertake work, then it is a matter of trust when he/she leaves, but it is virtually impossible to prevent him/her to use it someplace else. I am sure that half the time the company's spreadsheets were developed by employees within the system or those who were within and left. If otherwise then there would be a commercial licence and this could pose a problem. Most people would not want to use this spreadsheet.

Sometimes you can have all the info and are not able to use it as there are other factors that are responsible for you being ahead of your competitor, which are often beyond a spreadsheet.

My approach is if an employee is leaving, I would ensure that he/she has copies of all his work that he has done for me either in hard copy or electronic format. Sometimes that alone makes him/her realize that it is not correct to use the information in the employ of others.

Many professionals have posted spreadshets on the web for the use by colleagues free of charge or for a small charge. One can get sheets on a variety of engineering topics. From these ideas come to others who my modify etc.

I would quit worrying too much about this issue as it would only make you paranoid.

 

[joerd]

I agree with IRstuff that most work that we engineers do benefits from free exchange of ideas and knowledge, just as we do in these forums. A company would very likely benefit from information sharing as much or even more than it suffers from information "leaks", because it can obtain information which would otherwise be protected, so it can do a better job. Ultimately, it will depend on how good the company's engineers are, not how well a company can steal someone's spreadsheet.

Cheers,
Joerd

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[bltseattle]

VAD
I disagree, but maybe it is an issue of scale. Yes, a spreadsheet the takes 2 hrs can be easily reprogrammed and to worry about that is to breed paranoia. But if an employee takes a spreadsheet to a competitor that took 100s of hours to setup, of paid work time, that is theft, and warrants preventative measures to protect the investment.

 

[Qshake]

Yes, I agree with bltseattle.

1. This was no small spreadsheet by any means.
2. I have no objection to anyone who wants to develop a similar application....go ahead, just use your resources to to it.
3. To have a company's work show up at another company is not means of flatter, but theft.
4. If the application is available on line at some excel outlet good. Let the competition go there and download it.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[VAD]

bltseattle:

I can agree with the scale. However, I am curious to know how many times employees take home work assignments and complete them on their own time,as part of their support to companies. Sometimes we tend to forget that. Granted that such goodwill does not warrant them moving someone else's info to a competitor. However, the extras that may be brought by such goodwill in far exceeds in my opinion, the 100 hours.

Do not tell me that all employees are compensated adequately for their extra time, as this does not always happen in the private sector.