Keylock with dead Battery

[ScottI2R]

Hi all,
I had an experience with a Hummer H2 recently. If someone can give me a clue as to the design of this problem. And it appears that it IS designed in.

Upon returning to the airport parking lot after being gone for a long weekend (Superbowl 2004, remember the Janet Jackson episode). My H2 had a dead battery. (My fault, I had left some accesories on). Well, when I tried to start it-NOTHING! It was at this point, I was not able to remove the key from the ignition switch! In the off position, the key was LOCKED into the switch! I cannot, for the life of me, figure out the reasoning behind this. Why would a mfr. design this into a car?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[ivymike]

I've noticed that some cars disallow removal of the key when the vehicle is not in park. Perhaps the circuit is set up such that a switch in the transmission selector must be "closed" to allow key removal, and the mechanical actuator sees "no voltage" as meaning "switch open." There is probably some way to override it mechanically (pinhole near the key slot?).

 

[ivymike]

oh, and the reason is probably something like "so the car doesn't roll away" (if someone can't get his key out unless he puts it in park, he's less likely to walk off with the trans selector in some other position).

 

[MacGyverS2000]

A friend called me one day from just outside my place, ticked and scared because her key wouldn't come out of the ignition. Being the all-knowing engineer that I was, I proceeded to spend 5 more minutes trying (unsuccessfully) to get the key out myself.

Then I realized the car wasn't in park A quick shift of the lever and the key popped right out.

Hey, we can't be smart engineers 24/7!

Anyway, my question to you is, "was the hummer in park?"


Dan
Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[ivymike]

hehehe... that'd keep it from starting, too. I was grocery shopping one evening (way back in college), and this female friend-of-a-friend had apparently been stranded at the store because her car wouldn't start. I told her I'd be happy to see if I could get it to go for her, and she said she'd already tried everything, and her boyfriend was coming to give her a jump. I went inside, got my groceries, and came back out to find her w/ boyfriend and jumper cables, still unable to start the car. I asked whether I could be of any assistance, and they said "no, we're just gonna call a tow truck." I asked whether they'd checked that it was in park... lo and behold, they were finally able to start it!

 

[GregLocock]

I'm sure it's an interlock thing, but I don't know why the OP had the problem he did. It may be something like the doors automatically lock if the key is withdrawn after a certain time, and there is some complex failure mode associated with that. You'd have to look at their FMEA, which of course, you can't.

The reason you can't start the car when it is in park is changes we put in after the Audi 'unintended acceleration' court case. So blame the lawyers. PITA to do, since we all had to figure out how to introduce physical interlocks without changing the crash performance of the steering column, or else re-crash the car.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[NormPeterson]

Apparently it's a widespread enough issue to have generated a TSB. I found this on a link from hummerforums"dot"com, but unfortunately there was no further information available there

2004 Hummer H2
Bulletin #: 02132004
Sequence #: 10012995
Date: 02/13/2004
Component Name: 116000 electrical system:ignition
Make: Hummer
Model: H2
Year: 2004
Summary: Ignition key can not be removed from the lock cylinder - service tip. *tt

Then I found this on H2fanatic"dot"com

F/CMVSS Noncompliance - Transmission Shift Interlock and Ignition Key Removal Override Compliance #03012 - (05/22/2003)
03012 - Transmission Shift Lock and Ignition Key Removal Override Compliance
2002-2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT

2002-2003 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL

2002-2003 Oldsmobile Bravada

2003 HUMMER H2

Condition
General Motors has decided that certain 2002-2003 model year Chevrolet TrailBlazer and TrailBlazer EXT; GMC Envoy and Envoy XL; Oldsmobile Bravada; and 2003 model year HUMMER H2 vehicles fail to conform to Federal/Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 114, Theft Protection. These vehicles are equipped with a mechanical override that could allow the ignition key to be removed with the shift lever in a position other than PARK. In addition, these vehicles have an override that can allow the transmission to be shifted out of PARK with the ignition in the OFF position. These overrides are not permitted unless the vehicles has a locking steering column.

Correction
Dealers are to eliminate these conditions by disabling the overrides, and if necessary, inserting a revised page in the owner's manual.

Is it possible that some linkage was out of adjustment?


Norm

 

[ScottI2R]

Great Responses everyone,

Macgyvers2000: Yes, it was in park. (That issue occurred at a later time after I backed the boat into the house.) I was backing and caught the VHF whip and the side on a brick window ledge. Brick vs. gelcoat, Brick wins! In anger I slammed the shifter into low and this caused a linkage adjustment problem. Once again, the Hummer slept with the key in it in the driveway this time.

I believe the above covers your reply as well Norm. Come to think of it, the last time I had a dead battery (Same accs. left on), I was able to remove the key. I guess the dealer removed the interlock.

Thanks again everyone, I guess I will try to find out more on the TSB's.

Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[pennpoint]

ScottI2R

YOU DRIVE A HUMMER H2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEEEEZZZZz!

I want your wallet, take out your ID.

pennpoint

Best regards
pennpoint

 

[ScottI2R]

Pennpoint,
Not since the fuel prices went ballistic. Drive it to pull the boat or when the snow gets too deep for the mitzi eclipse (READ: whenever it snows!) It IS a lot of fun though. I especially liked it when a car load of college girls decided to flash me back when it was a month old!

By the way, had to give my wallet to the gas station.......

Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[carnage1]

Working in an autoshop recently it was SOP to disconnet batteries on anything with airbags and we did run into a few models that no longer had an obvios mechanical linkage to be able to remove the key without battery hooked up so it has been done.

 

[linkbenesh]

Hello,

Say your car was on Park position, still : how would you get home?

A simple device,that takes 15 minutes to connect to the battery circuit, will cut off circuit wehenever the tension wiil go below the need to start your engine.

You can then leave any thing lighted/functioning, your battery will never go flat to asituation not allowing 4-5 starters and car ignition.It is like a safety factor reservoir.

Interested? Contact me!

 

[ScottI2R]

Thanks linkbenesh,
I use a device like that on my boat. Works great when we run the stereo too long.

Thanks,
Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.