LED Fixture for Outdoor parking Areas

[richanton]

I am looking at replacing the 250 watt metal halide lighting in my parking lot. It appears that the new style of fixture(Cree ARE-EDR-5M-R5) that consists of an array of LED's is not intended to have a field replaceable bulb. Cost of new fixture is about $1200. Retrofit bulbs are now available for metal Halide, but from what I heard their reliability is in question, probably due to the heat generated within the fixture.

Has anyone had any experience with LED retrofitting in parking areas.

 

[krisys]

If your pocket is deep enough, LED should be good enough for the parking lots. The color rendering is poor with LED. But for parking, it is widely acceptable.

 

[wbd]

You will also experience a longer life and reduced current draw. Assuming 120V, your 250W would be about 2A,and the LED is probably 1/2 that or less

 

[melspuds]

Most newer generation of LED fixtures now have the ability for replacement of only the LED. Google "LED parking lot fixtures"
Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[VTer]

I do not know of LED retrofits, but look into the ROI for new LED fixtures. CREE and GE Lighting make good products. We were able to replace MH with LED fixtures in that price range with 3 year ROI based on estimated energy savings and local incentives. You also should look into local incentives to purchase new LED fixtures to offset some of the cost depending where you are.

"Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic! If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic ù and this we know it is, for certain ù then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature". û Nikola Tesla

 

[melspuds]

I received a catalog today from this company, e-conolight. I don't know anything about the company. They look like good fixtures to me and the price is a lot better. Their catalog is on the web at www.e-conolight.com.
Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[itsmoked]

I've been impressed with their catalog too, (offerings, cost, detail) but have never bought anything from them.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jmbelectrical]

LED retrofits for parking lot and site lighting fixtures are being done all the time nowadays. If you factor in the slow lumen depreciation, which is typically 70 percent lumen output at 50,000 hours, reduced input wattage, and reduced maintenance costs (No need to re-lamp every 10,000 to 15,000 hours as you would do for a metal halide fixture), and higher quality of light (No color shifting), it's a no-brainer.

Some things to consider:

1. From an illumination performance standpoint, a one-to-one replacement should be feasible in most cases. Well-designed LED lighting fixtures are designed with optical systems that can widely and evenly distribute light. You won't observe "hot spots" as you would with metal halide fixtures, but the illumination should be more uniform. Try to find out what the IES distribution patterns are on your existing fixtures and ensure that the new ones match. On a similar note, ensure that a manufacturer is specifying whether a fixture's lumen package is the *overall* lumen output or the *delivered* lumen output. A 4,000 lumen fixture could deliver more lumens than a poorly-designed 4,500 lumen fixture.

2. When the time comes to eventually replace an LED fixture, different manufacturers offer different solutions. Some are making the claim that they'll manufacture and sell replacement LED assemblies from now to an eternity - something that I sincerely doubt. Others are expecting the fixture to be replaced in its entirety.

3. Go with a reputable manufacturer that publishes LM-79, LM-80, and maybe even TM-21 (This is a newly released standard) data on their LEDs. Some lighting fixture manufacturers are making highly unrealistic and exaggerated claims regarding the lumen depreciation and estimated useful life of their LEDs. The worst one I've seen to this date was from a manufacturer that was claiming 70 percent lumen output after somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 hours of operation.

4. Avoid LED retrofit lamps for metal halide (And fluorescent, for that matter) fixtures. LEDs are unidirectional light sources and perform poorly when retrofitted in a fixture whose optical system was designed for an omnidirectional light source, such as a metal halide or fluorescent lamp.

 

[ScottyUK]

jmbelectrical,

Have you any experience with the T8 fluorescent tube replacements? For example this one from Philips or this one from Osram?

I guess they're not as good as a purpose-made LED luminaire but given the labour saving compared to renewing the luminaire I can tolerate a degree of 'not as good' provided they are equal to the fluorescent tube they replace and last a lot longer.

 

[richanton]

I'm looking at this one right now, which is supposedly all purpose, and the only one of its kind on the market in that it works with or without ballast,any electronic or magnetic(some) but I just tested it with 30 year old T12 magnetic ballast and it did not work.

http://msissl.com/#!/t8

 

[HamburgerHelper]

I don't like LED street lights. The ones in my neighborhood are too intense especially when you look at them directly. If they were softer and easier on the eyes I would be all for them.

 

[ScottyUK]

Richanton,

That lamp might not be as unique as it claims. The only thing I spotted was that both Osram and Philips have two distinct designs for mag ballasts or HF gear, where that seems to be 'all-in-one'.

The Osram design can work directly from the line if you can be bothered gutting the luminaire to remove the ballast and starter:

http://www.osram.co.uk/media/resource/hires/502838/installation-instruction-substitube-value.pdf

and I'm pretty sure the Philips design has the same capability but I can't lay my hands on the data sheet. The linked document contains a wiring diagram in Section 3 for direct wiring, maybe that will help with the one you're struggling with.

 

[jmbelectrical]

ScottyUK,

Oh, wow! It looks like LED T8 retrofit lamps have come a long way! The first generation versions that came out about three years ago were mostly by no-name, off-brand manufacturers, were rather crude-looking, were mostly unidirectional, and didn't perform too well. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Department of Energy's CALiPER organization issued a report shortly after their arrival onto the market. The report, of course, concluded by discouraging their use.

Having said that, the new ones by Philips, Osram-Sylvania, and others look pretty promising. If it truly makes economic sense, go for it. If longevity, not energy savings, is your sole concern, be aware that Osram-Sylvania manufacturers a T8 lamp that has an average lifespan of over approximately 75,000 hours when coupled with a programmed start ballast. Something to think about.

 

[ScottyUK]

I have a massive population of old mag-ballasted luminaires on site, a mixture of T8s and T12s. Much as I would like to embark on a site-wide replacement program the labour costs won't allow it. Retro-fitting a decent HF ballast into a decades-old fitting doesn't make sense, and I can't see it being even vaguely economical either.

I'll admit to having a slight OCD-type problem with failed lights: to me it sends out totally the wrong message about the state of everything else we're responsible for, and in my mind it raises questions like "If we can't get the basics right, how well do we do the difficult stuff?". I have a similar problem with scruffy workshops and dirty switch rooms.

Back on track, I'm wondering if the T8 LED tubes would work with T12 mag ballasts, much as richanton has tried. they're physically interchangeable and I can't see any logical reason why not given the simplicity of the circuit, so I'm going to give it a go. I'll try to remember to post the results back here.