License issue - providing calculations for a manufacturer of a civil product for another state

[beej67]

I have a good relationship with a manufacturer of a drainage product manufactured in Georgia. I have provided "conceptual" calculations for them in the past, on "sample" projects that are not truly in any state, for their literature. I have also provided firm calculations for their products to be installed on specific projects in Georgia. Now they have a new project in Texas, and are asking me to provide calculations that will go into the overall design effort of the Texas project. (To be specific, the structural engineer of a bridge wants to know what the lateral loads on the bridge piers are going to be during a design storm.)

It's always been my impression that I cannot provide that information for a specific job in Texas without a Texas PE license. But since this is technically information provided to a manufacturer, I was curious whether I would fall under an "industrial exemption" like manufacturing company PEs often do. I do not work for the manufacturer - I'm an independent consultant.

Any guidance?

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Ron]

If the issue is covered by a building code, particularly if different than the state in which the product is manufactured, you might want to check the licensing. If not covered by code, then the state of manufacturing should prevail. In an abundance of caution, check with the state board in both states.

 

[IRstuff]

see

http://engineers.texas.gov/downloads/law_rules_122512.pdf

page 10

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Just go get the TX license. Not too expensive and fairly quick - or ask TX for a temp license.

 

[woodman88]

I am sorry, but not only have we all have done engineering without a PE license. It is usually a requirement to do such work before you can get the license, at least in all of the states I have looked at.

It is called working under the supervision of an engineer.

I have and even now do engineering in states that I do not hold a license in. Of course, it is done under another engineer, who is licensed in that state, supervision and who is going to seal it.

So does the engineer want you to seal the calculations (which I would not do) or merely supply them, under their direct supervision, to review and seal themselves?

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[beej67]

An interesting question Woodman. Here are the dirty specifics:

The manufacturer makes things that collect trash in stormwater flow - nets and the like. I have not seen the full design proposal yet, but my sense is that they want to attach some of these things to piers under a new bridge. I'm being asked to do the hydrology and hydraulics to determine a design flow rate under the bridge, and then determine the load on the columns, not only from the drag of the flow around the columns themselves, but also from the litter collection device. I believe my deliverable will either be a number in an email, or a report indicating how I did the calculation. I expect the latter, and I expect it will need to be stamped. I further expect that I could not work 'under' the TX structural engineer's umbrella without him adding me to his professional liability insurance policy, which I doubt he's interested in doing.

Ordinarily I would think I absolutely must carry a TX license to do this, but my client is the manufacturer, and the manufacturer is providing the info to the TX engineer. In my own projects in the past, we have quite often utilized engineering plans and specs for products manufactured out of state, with the design provided by engineers who work for the manufacturer, and I don't know whether those engineers had to be licensed in state. So that's the question.

If I'm going to have to get licensed in TX to do this work, I need to include the hassle of such, as well as the long term effects on my own insurance, in the fee. So it's a little bit complicated, hence the question.

Thanks for the link, IRStuff, I'll browse that today.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[woodman88]

"...I'm being asked to do the hydrology and hydraulics to determine a design flow rate under the bridge,..."
Well my BIG question here is, why is there not already a hydrology and hydraulics design flow rate under the bridge done?
If this is under an "industrial exemption" should not the EOR be giving you the design flow rate for you to calculate the additional load the product will add to the bridge?
Without a "design flow rate under the bridge" from an engineer licensed in Texas, I would not bother to look at an "industrial exemption" on the job. You will be doing far more IMHO than this would cover.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Bottom line - I think you could corroborate with the TX enginer - explain and detail all your calcs. Then he seals it if he agress??

 

[beej67]

H&H may already be done. I'll find out from the client soon.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[StoneCold]

Here is my take on this. Though it is in know way legally binding.
You are providing the drag on the bridge due to your manufacturers product.
Water and trash, etc. Why would it matter if it is Texas water or Georgia water?
If you were designing the piers, that seems like it takes local knowledge of the ground bearing conditions.
However the loads seem to be state independant to me.
But then I am a chemical engineer so take that for what it is worth.

Regards
StoneCold

 

[beej67]

Scope is different than I presumed before. The product is anchored to the bank, not the bridge, and the structural guy wants to know the loads to plan for at the anchors given flow rates, as he and the geotech are going to design the anchors. Doesn't seem to me like I'd need a Texas license for any of that.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[77JQX]

In my mind (and I'm not a lawyer, nor licensed in TX) it comes down to a distinction as to whether you're doing calculations about the product, or calculations about the site. If it's the product (e.g., designed for flow rate up to X, and at flow rate of X it it exerts a force of Y on the anchors) then you wouldn't need the individual state license. If, however, you're doing site-specific calculations, such as the expected flow rate or anchor design, then you need the local license. And that's my $0.02.