lies and statistics ...

[rb1957]

From Flight ... "At 6% of flights, long-haul services emit 51% of CO2: Eurocontrol"

are long haul a/c bigger than the others ? 6% of the flights, account for a much higher fraction of seat.miles (but that's not a "good" a story.

are long haul flights longer than the others ? 6% of the flights accounts for a higher fraction of flight hours ...

if we didn't have those long haul flights, would we have "any" ?? (many short distance flights are connections; many short distance flights can be traded for other modes, that probably create more CO2 ...)

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[rb1957]

ok 6% long haul and 94% short haul ...

assume long haul flights carry 5 times the number of passengers (200 vs 40) ... then it looks like 6%*5 = 30 verses 94%*1 = 94
now assume long haul flights are 5 times longer (2000 miles vs 400) ... now its 30*5 = 150 verses 94*1

so long haul flights have 150 passenger seat miles verses 94 passenger seat miles for short haul and long haul generates about the same CO2 emissions ...
actually it's a good deal ... long haul flights are more efficient than short ! (which I think is what we would've expected)

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[IRstuff]

That's stated in this article:

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/at-6-of-flights-long-haul-services-emit-51-of-co2-eurocontrol/142445.article#:~:text=Long%2Dhaul%20air%20services%20departing,flights%2C%20according%20to%20Eurocontrol%20data.[/URL]]Eurocontrol points out that 6% of long-haul flights departing Europe account for 10% of seats and more than 40% of seat-kilometres.

With this in mind, data shows that short-haul flying is arguably a bigger polluter when measured in emissions per seat kilometre, because a much larger proportion of the flight time is spent on take-off and landing, which use significantly more fuel than level flight.

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[IRstuff]

btw, most short-haul flights, at least in the US, are usually jam packed, since that's where they can constrain the occupancy more.

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[3DDave]

Rating things is based on the desired argument outcome.

It seems simple enough - if one is concerned with the profitability of running an airline then CO2/seat-mile is really just a stand-in for pounds of fuel per seat-mile. If one is concerned with pollution - look at where the fuel is burned regardless of the number of seat-miles. It's not like there is passenger ship competition for the typical airline passenger so any per seat-mile comparison is meaningless but for year-over-year profitability.

 

[IRstuff]

This looks like a reasonable article about the subject

https://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/research/energy/downloads/jardine09-carboninflights.pdf

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[thebard3]

That's stated in this article...

Nobody is supposed to read the article. Today we just peruse the headlines.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[moon161]

Guilty

 

[rb1957]

guilty too (particularly when I've exceeded my free reads ...)

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[IRstuff]

OK, I get the TLDR; so since you guys are soooo lazy ;-)

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[3DDave]

Rates are about profitability. Pollution is about total quantity.

 

[moon161]

Hmm. A 737 gets at best about same C02/km-seat as my '82 Benz 300TD, single occupant -.08 kg/km-seat for the benz. No movie or peanuts included though.

 

[verymadmac]

Which generation 737 and 747, there's only 40 years or so variation in engine technology for both those aircraft.

Edit: and how I have read the first charts legend, so -400's for both so 90's engines.