Long Term Engine Storage 1

[swall]

How do you guys feel about long term engine storage? Let's say 4 years in an indoor environment. Is motor oil adequate (fresh oil, not run) or does one need to use a preservative oil like MIL-L-21260?

 

[catserveng]

CAT had a pretty detailed storage procedure for diesel engines, for that long, VCI oil in crankcase and other places may be a real plus.

We used to ship smaller engines overseas for 2 years of onsite storage in a controlled environment warehouse to an OEM, preservation done per CAT method and then engine wrapped in a heavy duty shrink wrap. Very few problems with those engines but did find after about three years had some issues with gumming in fuel system, but traced that to not fully draining diesel fuel and recharging fuel system with calibration fluid.

I don't have a copy but you should be able to ask your local CAT dealer for a copy of the Special Instruction for Long Term Storage to use as a reference.

Mike L.

 

[patprimmer]

For high performance engines I like to back off the rocker arms so the valve springs do not take a set.

Regards
Pat
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[ivymike]

http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf

short&sweet version of the instructions CSE referenced.

 

[ivymike]

@pat: the valve springs should not take a set, regardless.

 

[catserveng]

Dang, all the years I've been around the yellow giant and didn't know we had a pretty version of the instruction. Guess that's what I get for being a part timer these days.

 

[patprimmer]

Isaac

With high lift cams they do. This is not a matter of opinion, it is directly from measured data. It was some time ago so exact details are fuzzy other than it was a Small Block Chev with over 0.600"lift.

I am reasonably sure the springs where Iskenderian Vascojets. I have no idea of the grade of steel or heat treatment other than they where what most racer used in the day.

Regards
Pat
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[ivymike]

If they don't yield when they sit overnight at max lift, I'm not sure why they would yield after another week or year.

 

[patprimmer]

I just know when you test them for tension, the ones that where fully compressed read about 140# on the seat and the ones not compressed read about 160# on the seat.

Regards
Pat
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[ivymike]

did you check 'em all before storage? pehaps the low ones had already yielded?

 

[ivymike]

to be honest, I would have expected the yielding to all happen within the first few crank revs, so that stuff I said about overnight was just to pad my story a bit & make it easier to sneak thru.

I would worry that yielding springs would later become breaking springs too.

 

[patprimmer]

It was a race engine. They where all shimmed up to within a pound or two on the seat. It was run a few times then left in storage for quite a while then pulled down to check before running again as it as a bit tight from corrosion as it was a boat engine. As I recall, about 4 of the springs where about 20# down on seat pressure.

I can't be sure it was the ones left compressed as I don't recall if I notice the crank position before dis-assembly, I just remember it was unusual for them to be so different after they where installed correctly and not used much, but had been left in storage. I concluded they had taken a set and always made a point of occasionally turning engines over if they where in storage in my workshop.

I guess on reflection the data is not all that strong, but it did become entrenched in my mind as fact and has never to date been questioned.

Regards
Pat
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[evelrod]

I don't worry too much about springs taking a set, but perhaps I should.
A number of years ago I was using Isky springs and having ready access to Isky, I asked if it was going to be a problem. Now that was for a spare race engine that would probably sit for all season. (I have a brand new TRD Toyota 2TC that's been sitting since 1997 without being turned over. HMMMMMMM!!!) Ed himself said I should have no problems with their springs. I did break a few and switched to another brand later on. The few times I did a head R&R and reused the springs, I never found a 'weak' spring. I never had a cam with anything over .5 lift, though. Anyway, these days on the Mini engine, I change all the springs at every head rebuild, no matter how few races they have on them. I figure if they need attention, it's cheap insurance.

On the same note, springs taking a set, I collect some really old pistols and the question of the magazine springs 'taking a set' if left loaded all the time. Several shops said yes they would, but some said no they would not. I have a Browning that's been loaded for well over 70 years. I still shoot it and it never fails to feed. Either the mag spring never took a 'set' or if it did it did not make any difference.

Rod

 

[franzh]

I would be more concerned about the point contact of the cam followers on the camshaft. The constant load on a non moving surface I think would force any remaining lubricant from the friction and wear surfaces.

Franz

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[swall]

Pat, could you elaborate on "bit tight from corrosion?" That is the kind of stuff I am interested in.

 

[patprimmer]

It was a flat bottom boat engine with water injected into the exhausts to act as rudimentary silencers. Some salt water spray inevitably found its way into the head and ports and cylinders.

Even with fresh water flushes and oil dribbled into the intake for a few seconds before shut down, a bit of salt stays there and a fine film of rust develops on he bores and valve stems.

Less likely, but of more concern is if it develops as pits or develops on the cam lobes, followers and valve springs.

I turn them over gently. If they feel tight I squirt some keroine/ATF mix down the plug holes and inlet system then rock the crank back and forth to wear the rust off. Provided it's only a light surface dusting of rust it cleans up quite good.

After it frees up I start it if possible, change oil and start it again.

I also, normally use Mobil 1 as I find it leaves a very fine protective coating for longer than mineral oil.

I know that is far from ideal, but sometimes circumstances dictate.

Once the damage is done, there is nothing to lose, as it either runs OK and your in front or scores a bore or pulls a ring land or knocks or loses a lobe or bends a push rod and your no further behind. It needs a freshen up anyway.

Sometimes a ring sticks for a while, but they normally free up then seal up with a few minutes running.

Sometimes a valve spring breaks. That is the worst as it might drop a valve.

Regards
Pat
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[drwebb]

NMMA FC-W engine oils must pass a severe corrosion, so a fresh charge of one of those juices may afford an extra layer of insurance for long-term 4T engine storage. They are API SG or above performance, so in many cases could be run a normal OCI straight out of storage.

 

[btrueblood]

"If they don't yield when they sit overnight at max lift, I'm not sure why they would yield after another week or year. "

Creep. No, not you personally, ivymike, but it's a real phenomenon. Google the term, or see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation)

Ok, loss of spring load would be more of a stress relaxation problem, but it's arguably the same physical phenomena.

Normally only a worry at high temperatures, but it can also be a concern for structures loaded near yield for long periods of time (years).

 

[evelrod]

Normally only a worry at high temperatures, but it can also be a concern for structures loaded near yield for long periods of time (years).

Ahhhh. There might be one key reason some engines sustain no discernible damage while others seem to fail in short order after long term storage.

Franz, that would be my concern and if/when I ever do anything with that TRD engine (never had oil, only assembly lube) I'll most likely pump high pressure oil through it while slowly turning it over prior to any actual startup. Especially since it's a flat tappet cam.

Rod

 

[patprimmer]

On the creep issue.

I deal in thermoplastics and creep is a very real issue with them but metals I thought reasonably immune except for aluminium and the need to re-tighten aluminium wheels for example.

Having said that I think it is fairly well beyond dispute that car springs take a set and old cars certainly sit lower than when they where new.

Regards
Pat
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