Looking for some help and guidence. 5

[jisu009]

This one could be a first in here....

I am currently 26 years old, I have been in sales for about 6 years and done fairly well.

I am a high school grad, with no college.

I want to go back to school and earn a degree in Automotive Engineering. I have an undying passion for all things fast...I want to tranfer that passion into my career.

I want to engineer shocks or suspension systems for race cars. F-1 maybe?

I know this is an unusual post, but if someone could possibly lend me some insight on where to start, that would be wonderful!

-Jeremy Selg

 

[TheTick]

Go ahead. You have my permission.

 

[ctopher]

Tick...

Jisu009, I would suggest talking to a counsler at a college. Counslers know what classes are needed.
Also send this thread to the Automotive Engineering post, someone there may help.

 

[jisu009]

Great! Thanks for the reply! How do I send this to Automotive Engineering Forum?

 

[COKA]

On the top left corner on this page, you click on "Forum List". Then you scroll down until you hit "Automotive Engineers" section, and you click on the the title that you want to put your post in. I would suggest "Automotive Engineering Other Topics". And you ask the same question that you asked in this forum. You may want to be more precise on what kind of information you want.

Good luck

Coka

 

[mloew]

What engineering content was posted that would warrant a x-post? X-posting is strongly discouraged on this site. This thread is fine here, but does not belong in the other fora.

Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"I don't grow up. In me is the small child of my early days" -- M.C. Escher

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[ewh]

You could flag your original post and ask that it be removed, then post your inquiry in the "Automotive Engineering other topics" forum. That would prevent any breaking of the board rules. I have to agree with MLoew though that this seems to be the appropriate forum for the info you are seeking.

 

[ctopher]

I agree this the forum to ask. I was just suggesting possibly asking some automotive experienced people in the other forum for their input.

 

[buzzp]

Me being electrical, I would think the mechanical engineer would be more involved with suspensions. To be honest, I do not really know of any schools that offer a degree in automotive engineering. Of course, I am probably wrong about that. In any case, the mechanical side of things is certainly the approach, I would think, that the automotive curriculum would use. Besides, if you had a degree in mechanical engineering vs. automotive, it would probably open up more doors for the kind of work you want to do.

Anyone care to elaborate on what gets taught under an 'automotive engineering' degree? Do they cover all automotive systems-electrical, fluids, mechanical, etc?

 

[jmw]

You are aiming high and i hope you can make your reach extend that far.

You might want to write to some of the top companies, many of the F! and Indy cars are made in the UK, and find out what it takes. Not just qualifications but ask about a typical profile for some of the guys that made it. Some of them probably did tune-ups before they could walk and some may have exhibited this commitment from a very early age and got on track as soon as they set their targets.

But there is always an exception.

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[jisu009]

Well, I most certianly know my way around production vehicles. I have built 3 SCCA production class race cars. I can turn a wrench with the best of them, however I don't think that is where my talents are best suited. I very much enjoy rethinking and "reengineering" many of the so called "top" performance parts on the market. I don't want to be on a F1 pit crew or anything like that, but I would enjoy designing and implementing manufacturing process within a company like Penske or Ohlin (both shock manufacturing companies).

Thanks for all the good tips guys!

 

[TheTick]

urban legend about Mozart...

A boy interested in becoming a composer approached Mozart and asked, "Could I compose a symphony?"

Mozart reoplied, "No."

"Why not?" asked the boy.

Mozart's answer: "Because you asked."

Due to illness, the part of The Tick will be played by... The Tick.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[GregLocock]

1) Get a good mechanical or aero engineering degree from a good university. I don't know if automotive engineering degrees are preferred or not for F1. I suspect not. In aero you'll probably want a PhD

2) You'll probably have to start at the bottom. Join a race team now. Get those spanners out.

3) Ignore the career advice of academics.

4) Read the following thread

http://forums.atlasf1.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68750

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[jmw]

Greg, do you mean "Join any race team now? No, i see the thread you posted has some good advice on where to enter the tree.
Good link.


JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[funnelguy]

Jeremy,
I am of two minds on this topic. First, I want to congratulate you on your drive and passion. Very few 26 year olds have the sort of commitment it takes to build a race car, let alone three of them. Perhaps your passion will carry you through the tough stuff ahead.

You really should have a Mech Engrg degree. Aero may not be your thing, but basic engineering principles will still apply to suspension and shock work (your stated area of interest). You need calculus, strength of materials, statics, kinematics, fluid dynamics, and a host of other courses to compliment your existing mechanical skills to the point where you can innovate and design.

Having the degree will not guarantee success, but not having it will probably guarantee failure. I would suggest moving away from production cars for the time being. Try to get experience on FFs or FCs. Shock tuning on these closely matched cars will be an excellent experience. It should also give you some insights into the differences in tuning philosophy between the sedans and lighter formulas.

This brings me to the second part of my post. I can't see how you can do this unless you are independently wealthy. Assuming you have the math and technical skill to get a BSME, how will you support yourself when you go back to school? Even if you get the degree, you know how many talented people would work in motorsports for free, if they could break in. You have a better chance of being a professional ball player. You must know that since you've been around racing for a while. Joining a pro racing team is like running away to join the circus. I hope you are single, with no immediate plans for anything resembling a family or "normal" existence.

So, here's my advice. Keep your job. Use it to pay for night school. See how those DifEq and Thermo courses work out. Meanwhile, find a top name formula car prep operation near you. Work there for free to get additional experience and possibly a positive referral in the future. Tie all those elements together with a lot of luck and skill. You might get where you want to go. Even if you don't, you'll have a great ride and will still have a roof over your head.

BTW, I've met some people in motorsports who were NOT technically qualified. I think the contact will mean more than anything else. Sorry for the negative tone of the post.

 

[jisu009]

Again, I thank all of you for your replies. I suppose I should elaborate a bit more on my situation and where I want to end up.

I am currently in the Mortgage industry and as many of you know...the interest rates over the last few years have made the industry very lucrative. I am not independantly wealthy, however I have enough saved to struggle through a few years of school, while still doing some loans on the side. My girlfriend (future wife) graduates this year and has secured a job that pays pretty well, she has offered her support both financially and emotionally.

My specific areas of interest are R&D of racing products for production vehicles, suspension technology, and designing tooling for manufacturing of these products. There are other areas of interest throughout the motorsports arena, but those just pop to mind as the ones that interest me the most.

I though long and hard about attending UTI or some other recognized mechanics school and turning wrenches as a living. I have friends that make 60-80K turning wrenches. I decided that for me, it was more of a hobbie and a passion that I use to MY benefit to prepare race cars for MYSELF I would have a tought time making a living preparing race cars at the pace I like to work. I am very, very detail oriented and have often times been criticized for building "the overkill mobile." I build my racecars the way I like them, nice and clean and every single part one the car is refurbished or reconditioned in some way, shape or form. That way when I race (which I currently race with ICSCC in the Northwest), I know the only factor while I am on the track is the driver (myself), and of course mechanical failure of componets. Building cars that way gives me a great level of satisfaction and as goofy as this may sound, it really puts me in touch with the car....it the sense that I can feel exactly what is happening with the car because I have intimate knowledge of each and every nut, bolt and system on the vehicle.
<end self glory rant>

I could see myself working with CAD/CAM and a CNC Machine, designing and testing shocks, etc.

As of now, this is more of a realization that where I am and what I am doing with my "career", is not where I want to be.

Maybe I need to talk to people who have the job that I want and see what advice they have to offer?

 

[TheTick]

I was being a bit of a smart@$$ before, but still serious. This is the kind of thing that you need to go out and grab. No one is advertising to fill dream jobs.

As far as education, go for the basic ME. If you find a more specific program, you may get bogged down in "industry dogma". A solid understanding of ME will go just as far.

Remember that your education is a tool to use for your benefit. It is what allows you to turn ideas into reality. Like any tool, it takes practice to use well, and it rusts and dulls with neglect.

There are many undereducated, embittered folks who say shop smarts are everything book smarts count for little (plenty of debate already to be found in these fora). Bull biscuits! Shop smarts are yellow. Education is blue. Engineering is green. Not much innovation comes from those whose basic understanding of physics was gleaned from watching Wile E. Coyote.

 

[Beggar]

I echo TheTick's advice regarding basic ME curriculum. The one thing I'd be sure of is that the university you're looking at offers advanced courses in subjects like dynamics, vibrations, and vehicle dynamics. The basic UG courses provide a strong foundation but I'd think that the knowledge gained through the advanced electives would be very helpful in getting you noticed and in being successful.

I'd also look for a school that has a Formula SAE car, mini-baja, or other kinds of projects - it's a good place to learn to work collaboratively and the faculty advisors *may* be folks with good industry contacts. If nothing else, those activities will help to validate your interest.

 

[MintJulep]

Jisu,

Obvioulsy it is unlikely that you will be able to call up McClaren, Williams, Ferrari or other F1 team and just get a job as their suspension engineer. However, since you are already invovled in racing, at least you are hanging with the right crowd.

Start talking with the pro teams that race on the same weekends you do. With your racing and building background you might be able to talk yourself into a job of some sort with a team.

You might also think about the tire companies.

I suspect you already have them, but if not, get Carroll Smith's three books "Engineer to Win", "Prepare to Win" and "Tune to Win". Paul VanValkenburg's book on vehicle dynamics is also good.

 

[jmw]

As i understand it, in F1, springs and shocks went the way of he dinasaur a long while back and "suspension" is pretty much the function of the tyres and the wishbone; hence materials science is likely to be a big feature, especially relating to carbon fibre and honeycomb aluminium and titanium.

I am sure the automotive guys will set me right on this.

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.