Looking out for #1 3

[macmet]

So, I could use some advice here. I am working for a company who is struggling somewhat these days. It is a rather small company. When we were doing well we were sending employees on courses, to site as much as possible, etc. These days though I see an effort by most of the people to cut back on these expenses.

Anyway, we have a job startup soon. I have only been here a bit more than a year now and would normally have gone to this start up to "supervise". However, at this particular startup my presence is not essential as they have significant experience with our systems.

I definitely want to go to site, but think they could get by with just phones calls. It would help build my experience and I think the site visit would benefit me, but am not sure how much it would help the company. My presence would be paid for entirely by my employer and not our customer based on the contract.

Should I push to go or pass up this opportunity for the good of company? How selfish should I be?

 

[kchayfie]

If it benefits you and makes you a better engineer it will also benefit the company (unless the additional expense of the trip is more than the contract will make). It is a short-sighted business that cuts back on expenses to the detriment of training inexperienced staff. Unless you are planning to jump ship just as soon as you've had experience of this start-up I would push for the chance to go.

 

[MadMango]

I would push to go if I were you. Anything that improves/expands your sklill set will benefit your company in one way or the other.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ewh]

I agree with the others. The worse that would probably happen is that they will claim financial hardship and are unable to send you. This should not reflect poorly on you.

 

[KENAT]

Lay out your case to the boss, perhaps spinning it slightly the way you want it to go, and let them make the decision. Pretty much as the others say. If they say no I wouldn't push it too far.

 

[swearingen]

If you really want to go that badly, offer up something so that your boss sees that you are serious about using this to further yourself. Offer to pay for a portion of the trip. For instance, you could pay for just the rental car, or just the plane ticket. If you're willing to kick in a couple of hundred, he may be much more inclined to make the sacrifice himself.

Another avenue: propose a lunch & learn session when you get back. Take many pictures and detailed notes and put together a presentation. The other inexperienced employees could gain something from it and it would give the experienced employees a chance to voice their opinions on what is done right or wrong at that location and how things can be done better. If it benefits more than just you, it could tip the boss' mind in your favor...

 

[Ashereng]

Gave you a star swearingen. Good options.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[corus]

Personal visits are always much better for improving relations with customers and they are more likely to deal with you in future if they know you by sight. NEVER NEVER offer to pay for your own expenses. The company and your colleagues will see it as a precedent which they will have to follow. The fact that you are probably using your own time to travel, and are most likely to be away from home, is sacrifice alone. If you can't build a case for going then wait until the next opportunity.

corus

 

[ScottyUK]

From a UK perspective I agree completely with Corus. Offering to pay for business expenses out of your own pocket is an act of madness. It would be bad enough paying substantial expenses to travel to an interview, let alone paying to do the company's work once you have the job.



----------------------------------

Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[swivel63]

think about yourself, always.

 

[macmet]

Thanks to everybody that responded. I expected responses similar to this but wanted to know for sure. I guess if they really cannot afford to send me than I will accept that, but if they're willing to send me I am going to go.

Does anyone have any arguments for me not to go?

 

[kchayfie]

Having advised you to push for the opportunity to go, I can also see some situations for not going. If there is another start up on the horizon which would be cost less to send you to, or would be a better learning opportunity, or actually requires a presence on site instead of that being a nice-to-have you might be better off not going to this one. But I would have the conversation anyway along the lines of "I think it is important I get this experience but maybe this isn't the right project. I definitely want to go when project X starts up"

And try to get it written into some sort of training or developement plan so you are in a better position to push for it when the time is right on the next project.

 

[Beggar]

Take what you can get when you can get it. If they can't afford to send you, they'll tell you so.

By all means, look out for number 1. You're the only one doing so!

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

--------------------

 

[ScottyUK]

The only reason I can think of not to go would be if in the process of pushing really hard to you manage to piss off your boss in a career-harming way. That probably comes down to the respective personalities of you and your boss, so it's something you will need to judge yourself. Step up to the line, but try not to cross it.


----------------------------------

Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[GRoStruc]

I would push for it, if your boss decides that on balance that they don't need someone on site, and that the experience you would gain is outweighed by the expense of going then I guess you'll have to live with it. You never know, if you have a good boss and it’s an interesting/unusual job then he might recognize it's worth sending you if for no other reason than getting the experience.

When we have jobs going on off-site I always try to get out to them at some point, I very rarely find it’s a wasted trip, either for the good of the job or to further my own understanding.

Just a cautionary note, I know you’ve said that your sub-contractor has significant experience with your systems, but from bitter experience I have learnt not to underestimate the stupidity of others (both inside and outside my company)

 

[redgdon]

If the company is struggling to the extent that it can't pay your expenses, then perhaps it is time to look after number one and look for a new job, before they can't afford to pay you.

 

[JohnNabors]

Look out for #1, but be careful not to step in #2.