Looking to buy steel from China 1

[ajn22anellie]

The “powers that be” asked me to look into buying some boom sections from China. The boom sections are made from steel plates welded together (simple box structure). We currently make the boom sections in house, but the thought is that we could buy them cheaper from overseas. The booms are used on boom trucks, material and personnel handling. I am concerned with the quality of steel manufactured in China. If a boom were to fail, there’s a good chance someone could get killed. Are my concerns warranted? Does China have good control over the quality of their steel? I am completely naive when it comes to Chinese steel standards/ reliability.

 

[dbooker630]

I have only dealt with a few Chinese mills; Jiangyin Xing Cheng Steel Works provided some bloom cast bar stock to my company without any quality issues. I cannot speak for plate production though.

 

[MikeHalloran]

You'll be paying to ship a lot of air. Be sure to account for how many booms you can stuff into a container.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[metengr]

ajn22anellie;
I would suggest you visit the mill and fabrication shop to review and understand what is going on. You are talking about two critical issues; material supply and welding.

If a boom were to fail, there's a good chance someone could get killed. Are my concerns warranted?

Yes.

Does China have good control over the quality of their steel?

Only if you provide your specific requirements and have a QA/QC person that you hire, not the mill or fab shop, to watch over your project.

I am completely naive when it comes to Chinese steel standards/ reliability.

My advice to you is to talk to the "powers-to-be" and advise them of shipping costs and having a hired QA/QC expert to oversee what is going on. Otherwise, you will have a mess on your hands and liable for any defective work from China.

 

[arunmrao]

All the mills in China are presently closed. All business related visas are not being issued until Nov 20. This is inview of Summer Olympics.

If you could wait till then and factor such exigencies in your purchase ,China will be a good source. Meanwhile also check the ocean freight cost. There are good mills,yet they can turn out bad at times.

Chocolates,men,coffee: are somethings liked better rich!!
(noticed in a coffee shop)

 

[KENAT]

We're looking at outsourcing stuff abroad at the moment (no welded assy's that I'm aware of though).

It seems there are many horror stories generally about stuff from there, but also some people have been very succesfull.

I think make sure you specify what you need very well (this may require more effort than you expect if to date you've been doing it in house) and make sure you're getting it. Fundamentally the same you should do with any supplier but with the added complications of it being a long way off, different time zone, possible language issues, shipping costs...

Still, apparantly we're saving lots by doing it (not China Specifically at this time).

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[MSUKeith]

Good advice from Metengr,
If you do decide to proceed here are some tips:

- Make sure you clearly communicate the specifications that the material and welds are to be purchased and manufactured under. These should include details on all the basics, chemistry, mechanical properties, weld qualification testing, etc; INCLUDING THE TEST SPECIFICATION used to perform the testing. Accuracy of certain tests tends to be lacking in China - lots of personnel experience on this one.

- All paper work - mill certs, weld certs, bills of lading, etc should reference the specifications you require. Any deviation then material is held and recertified at their expense.

- When using a broker make sure to define contacts with the actual mill and weld source to develop clear understanding of expectations and gauge knowledge level. Ask a few intellegent questions upfront and you can get a pretty good understanding of their knowledge level. Run away from blank stares and the 'we do that' response to every question.

- Double check the product on receipt!

These all seam like simple things that are done in the course of everyday business but it is amazing what can get skipped when the dollar savings gets in front of upper management - particularly in these times of high raw material costs.

 

[salmon2]

I am dealing with several top steel mills in China right now. Tubular product only. Made a lot of saving and good quality so far - has been several years.

Also came cross one or two not so good mills before, already quit.

I understand the root of steel quality is about clean steel. Good mills in China can produce very clean steel.

I would suggest 1) contact top mills in China in term of price; 2) hurry up because steel price from China is increasing very fast.

Also, I agree with others that the communication is the key of success.

 

[insult2injury]

While not plate-related, I was informed this week about a shipment of structural bolts with ~30% failure rate.

I2I

 

[EdStainless]

We worked with 6 mills in China before we could qualify one. We still (three years later) send one of our people in every time one of our jobs is being run. This is what we do in any part of the world. It is just a lot easier to do in the US.
Plan on the same level of inspection, welder qualification, testing and such that you do now. That means your people on the ground over there every time.
You have infinite liability with your product. One serious incident with a couple of fatalities and you are our of business. You can't trust anyone, it has you be your QA oversight.
Can you do it, yes. Will you save any money, probably not.
You will need to do more raw material testing, more welder qualification testing, having personnel on site will cost more, and you will need more inventory to allow for the uncertainties in ocean freight.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[salmon2]

I hope people and our management can understand meeting specification is the supplier's responsibility and supplier is usually not responsible for in house functional test unless agreed.

If the specification and functional test are interchangeable is our own thing. So if the material met the specification, but failed in functional test or field, it is time to check your specification, not blaming suppliers.

 

[EdStainless]

careful salmon2, what you said is basically correct, but the enforcement of specification compliance is the responsibility of the purchaser. This is why the purchaser has rights of access and audit.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[salmon2]

Our PO/contract with any steel mills is by specification + exception list against Spec, if any. So the Spec combined with exception is what I call "specification" in my previous post.

If the MTR is not conforming to Spec + exception, the supplier will be asked to submit a non-conformance request, then we, as purchaser, have three options: 1) take as is; 2) cancel the PO; and 3) ask them to remake the PO.

Testing frequency in MTR and consistency has to be negotiated and monitored over a period.