Low torque 4" ball valves? 2

[cludwig]

Hello,
I am searching for 4" 1/4 turn 600lb flanged (1440 psi) ball valve that can be opened and closed by hand. We have used Balon ball valves with great success for our 2" and 3" applications, but the torque on a 4" Balon is too much for one person to operate with one hand. Handle length is limited to about 2 feet. We use Balon ratchet-turn ball valves in some applications, but for this it is not fast enough. We need an operator to stand at a manifold and simultaneously open one valve with one hand, while closing the other valve with the other hand. The whole operation must take less than about 2 or 3 seconds. We tried SRI valves, which have a much lower operating torque, but their reliability is unsatisfactory and we have difficulty successfully redressing them.

Mapegaz valves supposedly have worse reliability than SRI.

For those that know what I am talking about, I am a well tester, and I need 4" oil manifold valves that won't fail in the first year or two. We need to operate fast enough for the combined meter factor.

Fluid type is well effluent: oil, gas, water, brine, acid, H2S, CO2, sand, you name it. Must be NACE 0175. Must seal at low pressures and high. Also tolerate extended periods rigged down and open to the air.

We are currently spending $2000 each for our SRI valves. We would be searching for a similar price range.

Anyone know of such a valve?

 

[ilan7]

The valve you buy - has a manual actuator anyway. Why not put few more dollars and order a pneumatic actuator? this way the operator will just use a small handle to flip the valves from open to close, and at the next step the PLC will bo it automatically...

 

[zdas04]

I have had very good luck with Trunion Ball Valves in that service. The trunion bearings support the ball and keep the dP from shifting it hard into the downstream seat. I've been buying 4-inch trunion PBV valves from Zy-Tech in the states for pricing in the ballpark you are looking for.

I think the small Balon valves are floating ball, and with a few hundred psi dP floating ball valves become very difficult to start to open (although they move easily as some of the dP gets off of them).

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

The Plural of "anecdote" is not "data"

 

[petergg]

Have you considered Triple offset butterfly valves.
These have a much lower torque than ball valves and are quite suited to your operation.

 

[aberta]

We find Velan Valves are the best. Their ball valves are low torque, and fire safe.

 

[saxon]

cludwig, Got air available? Why not install actuators operated by solenoid valves, which are operated by a push button.

Hope this helps.
saxon

 

[NGiLuzzu]

I agree with the suggestion by Petergg... (most of all if a gear with handwheel may also be considered for actuation in the specific operation).

About triple-offset butterflies, maybe the following links can be useful for your information, just to see some images of this type of valves:
*

http://www.vanessavalves.it/

*

http://www.fc-x.com/orton/

*

http://www.tomoeeurope.com/products.cfm

*

http://www.velan.com/products/catalogs/bf.htm

Best regards, 'NGL

 

[ANBALAJI]

HI CLUDWIG

YOU SAID YOU HAVE TRIED SRI VALVES. IS IT POSSIBLE FOR U TO TELL ME MORE DETAILS ABOUT THAT VALVE MFR.
THANKS

 

[cludwig]

Triple offset butterfly valves won't work for us as they are torque sealed. A geared mechanism normally provides the torque to create the seal. We need a level operated valve so we can operate it by hand quickly.

We'd prefer not to use air actuators as most of our manifolds are used in a portable/temperary fashion and the actuators would take longer to rig up/down and pose their own maintenance issues.

Thank you all very much for you help. I will check out the Velan and PVB valves. We will use actuators if completelly necessary.

Chris.

 

[jsummerfield]

Two to three seconds is pretty fast for an automated 4-inch ball valve. It would be fine when opening as much flow happens before the valve is wide open. Closing would be the issue. I use one-second per inch pipe size as my throw-down estimate. If automating the ball valve you would need to specify the speed requirement. Would four seconds be OK?

I regard API 6D NACE ball valves as generic. Servicibility issues exist. Cameron is a well known and make a welded body valve that some regard as prefered. See if the fluid requirements dictate other special metalurgical or elastomeric issues.

Contact the many suppliers of API 6D ball valves about the torque. The actuator suppliers may already have the data. Start with Bettis (they may be marked as Emerson these days). I would think that you could get a fast opening 4-inch ball valve with teflon elastomeric components. I am less certain about $2000 for the NACE valve.

Actuators are another costly factor, expecially if you include the installation details. The actuation could be totally pneumatic without electrical accessories. The valve automation houses can help with this too.

John

 

[aggieengineerrmb]

A trunnion supported ball valve, instead of a floating ball valve like you are getting from Balon, is the way to go.

Balon does not offer a trunnion style valve, but looking at the KF Industries catalog, their 4" FP trunnion valve has an operating torque about 50% lower than their comparable floating ball valve. Trunnion valves typically cost a little more, but in larger sizes the higher cost for the valve is typically offset by the lower costs associated with automation of a low torque trunnion.