lugs and shear pins 1

[midsidenode]

Does anyone have any idea on how i can get a copy of two Product Engineering papers:
Developments in the Analysis of Lugs and Shear Pins M. A. Melcon and F. M. Hoblit, Volume 24, Number 6, pages 160-170, June 1953 and Analysis of Lugs and Shear Pins Made of Aluminum and Steel Alloys, F. P. Cozzone, M. A. Melcon and F. M. Hoblit, Volume 21, Number 5, pages 113-117, May 1950. I've attempted a search on the web with no luck.

thanks
msn

 

[ESPcomposites]

Do you have an affiliation with a university? That would be one way.

If not, you may be able to get it through the local library. They won't have it, but if they have ILL (inter library loan) then they will have access to anything in the network. There is a good chance a university within the network will have the paper.

Brian

http://www.espcomposites.com

 

[midsidenode]

Thanks Brian. Yes, I have an affiliation with a major University - but what is (was) "Product Engineering? Was that an old engineering journal or periodical?

msn

 

[ESPcomposites]

I see your question now. Is this it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-ISSUES-McGRAW-HILL-PRODUCT-ENGINEERING-1961-MAGAZINE-/330482107453

What I would normally do is just submit the request to the library (perhaps via ILL) as a journal and let them figure it out. At least on my end, they are pretty good about tracking it down.


Brian

http://www.espcomposites.com

 

[Sparweb]

That sounds a lot like the paper that is referenced in Bruhn. I have a paper copy of at least one of them somewhere...


Steven Fahey, CET

 

[midsidenode]

yep - it's referenced all over the place including also in Niu and Flabel.

msn

 

[Sparweb]

I found a scanned copy in PDF. It doesn't want to upload, though, probably because the file is too big (~5Mb).
I'll give it another try later when I'm not so busy.


Steven Fahey, CET

 

[ESPcomposites]

Out of curiosity, are there any copyright issues with sharing papers in this manner? I would be hesitant to do so, but maybe I am being overly cautious.

Brian

http://www.espcomposites.com

 

[Sparweb]

My take on copyright in this case:
- Published in 1953.
- Journal is defunct.
- I'm not charging Midsidenode any money.

It would be a little different it it was last month's Popular Mechanics.

Midsidenode: I tried compressing it but the results weren't legible. You can send me a message at my hotmail account. I won't write it out (forum rules) so my hint is that the name is "obvious" if you consider that I use the same alias.

Steven Fahey, CET

 

[ESPcomposites]

Steven,

No problem for this case. In general, do you know what the rules are for sharing papers? For example, it is common to give hard copies to peers, but how does that work in the electronic age? And perhaps there is a difference between directly sending a paper versus making it accessible to the general public. I have a very large collection of technical papers in electronic format, but am always concerned about dissemination.

Brian

http://www.espcomposites.com

 

[TVP]

ESPcomposites,

You should consider your large collection of technical papers to be subject to copyright protection, meaning that you may not distribute any of the documents to other parties unless you have permission from the copyright holder. Items that you freely obtained via internet download are not subject to this restriction because the publisher/copyright owner intended for the information to be freely available, which is not the case for magazine subscriptions, journal articles, conference proceedings, etc.

 

[Sparweb]

Whenever the situation is one of "peer support", then I assume that I am safe as long as I act in that manner. Meaning I wouldn't sell the article. I also decided not to publicly upload it either, but I think that's going farther than necessary.
Provided that the e-mail I received from Mr. Midsidenode really is from him, then I've sent it off in a reply to the correct person. And that's that. I received my copy in much the same manner.

Steven Fahey, CET

 

[ESPcomposites]

Steven,

I don't think anyone is questioning your judgment in this case. But it does bring up a good question about the more general scenario.

TVP suggests that I cannot share documents, while Steven suggest that direct emails *may* be OK. I don't know either way, so I tend to error on the side of caution.

The case for sharing would be that the paper is public domain and anyone can get authorized to receive a copy through their public library.

The case against would be a copyright issue and that you cannot redistribute it. The other potential issue might be the question of who is on the other end. For example, the case "for" may be invalid if the other end is a non-US citizen (and the paper is from the US).

Perhaps there is a third scenario where you may redistribute papers, provided you are not selling them, know the person you are sending to, and can verify they are a US citizen (or something to that effect).

Again, I am talking about the more general scenario and not the paper provided by Steven.

Brian

http://www.espcomposites.com

 

[Sparweb]

It's an interesting topic, one where I will admit I am rather naive. I checked with one source of technical papers, the Elsevier website. They are an on-line sort of "clearing-house" for technical papers. They have thousands of journals, and they've got lawyers, too.

...
You may print or download Content from the Site for your own personal, non-commercial, informational or scholarly use, provided that you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices.

You may not copy, display, distribute, modify, publish, reproduce, store, transmit, post, translate or create other derivative works from, or sell, rent or license all or any part of the Content, products or services obtained from the Site in any medium to anyone, except as otherwise expressly permitted under these Terms and Conditions, relevant license or subscription agreement or authorization by us.
...

This means that any document that I've obtained from them, by any means, in any form, is covered by their rules, which explicitly prohibits what I just did. I expect that three are many other online services such as these with similar terms. Getting articles from the journal publishers themselves, too, is probably not different.

The article we're talking about comes from a journal called "Product Engineering" and it was printed in 1953. The journal stopped being printed in the 1960's (I think) and there are no back-issues available through Elsevier (or anywhere for that matter, I looked). So this case appears to be an exception.

To be sure, I checked that their database even does go back that far, and yes it does. Searching again among those journals from the 1950's... it doesn't come up. So if I'm going to try to hunt down the modern-day holder of the publishing rights of Product Engineering, I'm going to need a more elaborate search.

A search started at google (including google scholar), using the terms "Cozzone Melcon Hoblit" lead to a multitude of papers that reference this one, but not the article itself. Attempting the same with "product engineering" gives a result like this:

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?as...&as_yhi=&as_sdt=1.&as_sdtp=on&as_sdts=5&hl=en

...so my guess is that there is NO current holder of the copyright to this article. It may have passed on to someone when the journal stopped publishing, but that someone has completely forgotten about it or ceased to exist.

You would have a completely different choice if the article in question was more current. If you obtain a copy of a copyrighted article from a colleague, who got it from an official source, I believe he could be liable for copyright infringement, according to what I read in the Elsevier rules, if his copy of the document came from them.

ESP may have a good point about the sharing of the article across the US border. I didn't think of that. I can't find anything on the ".com" website that addresses this.

And all this forgoing talk concerns only journals and the articles within them. If we were talking about something else, like corporate proprietary data, I think there are some important differences in the rules that apply.

Steven Fahey, CET

 

[ESPcomposites]

Thanks for looking into that and Elsevier is great. They obviously have to make money for their service so I would not distribute anything I obtained through that channel.

I know what you mean about wanting to help out a peer. I often want to help out, but want to be legal and also respect the journal/publisher (they have to make money).

The only immediate conclusion that I can come to is that it is better safe than sorry. But either way, it is a good discussion. Especially for those of us who have a natural tendency to help.

I suppose one way to help is to just show a way to obtain papers. I was pleasantly surprised that my local library has the means to obtain technical papers since I am no longer able them via the university. Of course there are also pay services, but that can get costly if you have many you want to collect. I get a lot of "duds" as well and it would be disappointing to pay for those.


Brian

http://www.espcomposites.com

 

[Sparweb]

ESP:
...Of course there are also pay services, but that can get costly if you have many you want to collect. I get a lot of "duds" as well and it would be disappointing to pay for those.

That is how it is with things like NAS specifications. For the time being a realistic attitude prevails, and I can get away with the using a lot of the original MS specifications from which they were photocopied (ahem, engineered). And even the Mil specs were a pain to come by before the internet. 15 years of websites like Assist and the NACA/NASA tech report servers, and yeah there's quite a stockpile on my computers, now, too!

Collecting and tending to a personal library of data that you find useful is just one of the many common habits of engineers. What is ironic is that we sometimes skirt the rules doing so, even in the name of upholding other rules.


Steven Fahey, CET