Magnetizing Acupuncture Needles Creates Questions! 3

[Heartslord]

Greetings,

We are seeking to make Magnetized Sterile Disposable Acupuncture Needles.

Main Questions that come up:

1-Best composition for easy fabrication i.e. stainless 440 or 440B? (rather than to for instance use vicalloy or Arnokrome for the increased magnetized strength).

2-Must hold the magnetized state, it's of no help if it dissipates prior to use (several years minimum, is this possible?)
Much less desirable would be to have them attached to a permanent magnet to hold the magnetized state.

3-Easily magnetized would be best. Most acu needles are boxed by the hundred with placards of ten individually contained needles with the needle in a single disposable plastic "shooter" tube. Is it possible to magnetize them on the placards in the box or even many boxes at one time?

4-Less desirable would be to make the handle of a permanently magnetized material and the needle body would be a magnetized "extender" allowing the magnetic properties to extend to the needle shaft and tip.


So, currently acu needles are made of some form of stainless, perhaps with a stainless, silve or plastic handle. we'd like to keep it simple but require:

material must magnetize and retain same.
simplest method to magnetize large quantities.

thanks for your help, any input is appreciated and yes, I'm a layperson. I have though practiced acu for 25 years and used about 1.2 million needles to date!

p.s. for hardness, normally an acu needle will bend (a bit)comfortably without breaking or kinking so they don't need to be super "hard" but still strong and not breakable even if kinked.
thanks again,

tom chi
one file link is for a picture of acu needles on a placard the other is closer shot of needles and stainless handles.

 

[MagMike]

Stainless steel (400 series) generally isn't considered to be a permanent magnet material. It'll lose most if not all of its magnetization once of the magnetizing field is removed. Vicalloy and Arnokrome have the same problem.

Even if the material problem could be worked out, I don't think it is practical to magnetize them prior to packaging. If the needles were packed N pole to N pole, then they will demagnetize each other, before they could be used. If they were arranged N pole to S pole then they will attract to each other and it would be very difficult (and unsafe) to separate them.

 

[Heartslord]

Thanks Mike,

Since these needles are stored in individual "shooter"tubes they could conceivably be stored n/s s/n if an appropriate composition would hold the charge.

Is it possible to create a permanent magnetized needle by storing them as such (above)?

If so, suggested composition?

Otherwise, perhaps they could be shipped with one pole on a thin strip permanent magnet? I would prefer not to create a lot of discard (magnets after use)

Also, what about the idea of the handle being a permanent magnet factory-attached to the body of the needle.

A less desirable possibility would be a highly magnetizeable needle that could be site magnetized with a small Kronus manetizer/demagnetizer since they are for single use and disposal. In which case, what would be the ideal composition (preferably some form of stainless).

Mike I hoped you would chime in. I was sent here by a metallurgical engineer who knew of your expertise.

I'm also concerned not to ask a LOAD of questions, happy to engage a pro professionally, but... there's a reason why people come to you.

respectfully,
tom chi

 

[EdStainless]

In the old days many high carbon steels similar to tools steels were used as permanent magnets.
I can't get to my books right now, but I am sure that you have some options.
Vicalloy and Cunife are the first two that come to mind.
Remalloy and 6% W steel would also work.
You need to hunt some more for the magnetic properties of 440C. I think that it might work for you.
You don't need a huge amount of field.
If these are in tubes that are mounted to cards so that the needles are not right against each other then I don't think that they will loose too much strength in transit and storage.
I would envision making the needle, cleaning, packaging and then magnetize.

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[Heartslord]

Thanks Ed,

If the correct material (still stainless or equivalent for surgical use... inserting into the skin) can hold the charge and be magnetized after packing (MagMike also suggested that) then the only question would be how long the needles would remain magnetic. If they could be counted on for say a minimum of 18 months that could work.

Neither of you addressed the permanent magnet for a handle so I'm thinking perhaps you didn't see that as a good option?

I'm also looking at using a round magnet with a plastic tube adjoined and groups of say, twenty needles in each tube with the tips all touching the permanent magnet.

Any thoughts or either the handle magnet or all tips on perm mag?

many thanks,

tc

 

[IRstuff]

The aspect ratio of an acupuncture needle is quite bad for putting all the magnet at the handle. I think you'll find that a) the magnet itself won't be that strong, and the magnetization on tip of the needle will be even weaker.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Heartslord]

Thanks IR,
I think that brings it to the question of whether an appropriate (surgical or stainless) metal can be used that will hold the charge for a minimum of 18 months.

Presuming so, when the needles are all lined up, ten to a placard, ten placards to a box, will a magnetic field cause the whole box to charge up with tips one field and handles the other? or do they need to be done one placard at a time?

If a suitable metal wil not hold charge that long, I'm imagining a thin bar magnet running perpendicularly to the titips of the needles on the placard and that a long thin magnet could be used.

If not, then can say, ten needles be touching in a group, no individual packaging with the tips on the permanent magnet? They could be removed one at a time, used during a session and then discarded.

Many Thanks,
tc

p.s. you guys are gonna have to come in for some treatments on me! Since this is not a commercial offer I think it's okay to post a URL where you can read about the specialized pain therapy I provide, not to mention general disorders.

http://www.FixPainNow.com

 

[IRstuff]

Acupuncture needles are quite springy, more like piano wire than sewing needles; that'll still drive the type of steel needed.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[EdStainless]

while the long shape works against using a PM on one end it does help the needles stay magnetized. With such a long aspect ratio the self demagnetization will be nearly zero.
If you don't expose them to an external field they will will stay magnetic forever, hence the name permanent magnets.

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