Manufacturing Tech Skills for ME

[Kinsrow]

I'm seriously considering taking manufacturing technology associate degree with CNC option. I do this because I enjoyed doing hands on work and always impressed by knowledge that those machinist have. I too hope someday have my own machine shop so I can do consulting work. Currently, I'm a tooling/fixture designer with BS in Mechanical Engineering.

Anybody out there who has similar situation can tell me their stories. Perhaps pro/cons, up and down.

One of my concern is that since manufacturing technology evolves very rapidly, things that I learn now would be gone in 3-4 years. 5 years ago, I saw many machine shops that operates manually. Now, true craftmanship are extinct, many of them uses CAM software to complete their mission.


Thanks

 

[EngJW]

Is it necessary for you to get the degree (I assume it is a 2 year degree)? If not, you can take classes and check books out of the library, especially if you have a good college library locally. The advantages of not pursuing the degree are that you can learn what is most relevant to your interests, do it at your own pace, and cut out all the crap like taking tests. How many times have you taken a course only to have the instructor waste the time or not show up (too many times for me, ha ha). The fact that you already have an engineering degree means you are plenty capable of learning on your own. Best of luck.

 

[Heckler]

Kinsrow,

I've done the same thing that you want to do. I took manufacturing classes at a local jr college. I met a lot of skilled machinist that were a natural turning handles and setting up a CNC Mill. I was really impressed by the knowledge I aquired in those classes.

The classes I took started were:

Manual machining - focus on lathe ops
Manual machining - focus on mill ops
Manual CNC programming - mill ops
CAM focused CNC programming - mill ops
various welding classes & NDT

I'm far from being a proficient machinist....it's a lost art in today's robotic manufacturing processes. I know of a dozen or so 'ol skol' machinists that are gurus in their trade.

 

[Kinsrow]

Heckler,

That's exactly what I want to go.!!

What do you do with it now??

Thanks

 

[TheTick]

Now, true craftmanship are extinct, many of them uses CAM software to complete their mission.

Do you really believe that there is no element of craftsmanship in getting a CNC machine to create good parts with a program? Do you also believe every "handle cranker" is a craftsman simply because there was no computer between him and his work?

There are plenty of craftsmen who work by computer. There are plenty of hacks who butcher things without a computer.

 

[Kinsrow]

I'm saying that the "skills" is not being used literaly. No one make parts using a set of files anymore, like my old german supervisor used to do when he was my age.

I do believe that a true craftsman can transfer his "skills" to produce good parts using CNC. Infact, that is the reason I want to learn manual operation.

 

[Heckler]

Kinsrow,

It has helped with become a better designer. I sit behind a computer most of the time designing but I also get to interface with our machinists on a daily basis. We have a R&D mold maker that is a wealth of knowledge. He uses my MCAD models to make prototypes and molds. He uses MasterCAM then outputs to his Mill. It's kind of odd because our production department still writes cnc programs by hand when they could use our MCAD models but it's the person in that position tha refuses to use the state of the art tools.

I had aspirations of opening my own shop but it's so expensive starting a company in California. But I still get to turn some handles here at work....when they let me and the need arises.

One thing I noticed in taking these courses is employers these days don't really put a lot of value into apprenticeship programs verses hiring someone that already has the needed experience. It's the pride of apprenticeship programs has been replaced with the bottom line $$$$$

 

[Tobalcane]

Kinsrow,
I’m not so sure if you can transfer manual operation skills to a CNC machine, but I can be wrong. I mean you would know how to do it with your hands and have a feel of what you want to do, but on a CNC you have to either code in what you want or use mastercam to out line what you want. There is no touch or feel just knowledge from experience. I do feel that to have a good part come out of the CNC you have to start with the drawing. Eventually you have to transfer the drawing into master cam and then load it on to the CNC machine and then let it RIP!


Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

 

[Kinsrow]

Tobalcane,

If that's the case, why would they (the college) requires me to take manual operation before going to CNC then.

I thought that the practical knowledge using manual operation will help you to write better code on CNC. Now this would be different if it was using master cam.

 

[Heckler]

Kinsrow,

It's there attempted to make you more skillful with regards to the trade. We hire "machine operators" at a lower rate then a true multi role machinist. You can train a monkey to pick up a block of aluminum, place it in a fixture and push a button that excutes the program.

 

[Kinsrow]

Heckler,

You're right.

Andro

 

[TheTick]

Actually, Heckler, no you can't. I've been asked to do nearly that, and it didn't work.

Said "monkey" could not resist the urge to overexert force on the drill press feed, causing 1/4 inch drill bits to wander while drilling through polypropylene less than 1/2 inch thick. Same monkey also had trouble keeping his hand out of moving saw blades.

 

[Heckler]

I knew someone would call me on that statement. Was the said "monkey" the owner's son? I hope you encouraged him to take a job at Starbucks before he brought major bodily harm to himself.

ho ho ho

 

[TheTick]

I've also had parts rejected by monkeys who couldn't hold a caliper straight or read a vernier scale. Over time they learned that if they were about to reject my parts they were doing something wrong on their end.

 

[Kinsrow]

The first machined plastic part that I designed was pretty complicated in geometry not in functionality. One of the machinists came to me and he was pretty upset because it would take special tools and set up to get it done, plus he's got not much surface to secure it. He told me not to "monkey" around... Since then, he became my good friend.

 

[GeoSmith]

I would like to know where can I find the college which provide provide such part-time courses. Thanks.

 

[TheTick]

You probably want to go to a tech school to find machining courses. Of course, now they are calling themselves "colleges", too.

Alternatively, a short stretch in any state penitentiary could net you some valuable shop courses

 

[Beggar]

Presuming they still do, the California Polytechnic State University in San Luis Obispo had an outstanding machine shop and Engineering Technologist program that included a comprehensive machining program.

The classes addressed the theory of machining (tooth loads, cutting tool geometry, economics, etc) as well as practical skills that included things such as fixture design, survey of inspection techniques, SPC, CNC programming (g-code and CAM) and lathe, mill, grinder, and EDM operations.

The ME students were required to take a survey class and had the option to take as many of the major classes as they chose.

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Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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[Heckler]

Beggar,

Cal Poly no longer offer the Engineering Technologist programs as of 1990 according to a friend who was in that program.

 

[Beggar]

Wow, I wonder if they dismantled the whole shop. That would be tragic. I'm a much better design engineer today for all the hours that I spent both in classes (they didn't offer a minor but I had enough units for one) and with access to the shop (TAs received our own keys).

I think most people agreed that the strong hands-on approach was one thing that set Cal Poly apart.

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Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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