MBA VS MSc structural engineering? 10

[malikasal]

Guys, i am a structural engineer (FE) with 4 years of experience in steel structures , i am thinking of adding some mor letters after my name by getting the PE this year and starting a master programme, i am appealing to the experienced engineers in this fantastic forum, lets start voting (MBA VS Msc).



ôIf you don't build your dream someone will hire you to help build theirs.ö

Tony A. Gaskins Jr.

 

[jpankask]

It is really totally dependant on what you want to do with your career. They are two separate paths. MBA will not help you become a better engineer. Msc won't help (much) to become a better manager. Early in my career I started down the MBA path, ultimately deciding to pursue a MS in engineering. Right before I finished my master's degree, the manufacturing plant I was working at was shut down and I moved to a different industry (Energy). The MS has been much more beneficial to me in terms of career advancement, than the MBA would have been in this position. But...I prefer the engineering career path vs. the management career path. Tried my hand at the management thing for a few years, and did not like the amount of time it took me away from my family, so went back to engineering. So that is a personal decision you have to make, nobody on this forum can tell you what's best for you and your family.

 

[Lomarandil]

JP is right, a lot of it has to do with your personal goals, skills, and strengths. A few other points to consider:

Either path will offer credential value. In my opinion, the PE is more valuable than either in credential value, and probably in real value unless you find a particularly useful research niche.

You're exiting the entry level stage of your career, but many structural engineering firms are setting a MS in structures as a minimum hurdle for hiring nowadays.

There are some MS programs out there focused on engineering management. I completed one, which in my case was focused on technical optimization and business challenges for engineer entrepreneurs. This may be more valuable and more interesting than an MBA, especially if you're working in a small firm environment (or hope to start your own).

Unless you are 1) interested in a PhD, 2) passionate about a specific line of research, or 3) obtaining funding from it -- I'd advise staying away from a Thesis-based MS. It's a big time sink, especially if you have family or other obligations.

Logistically, "Executive MBA" type programs may be easier to fit around a typical work schedule. MS Structures programs often assume you are available full time during the day for coursework, etc.

 

[Trenno]

In Australia, I don't think either weigh that heavily with employers nor does either really affect your career progression.

Having an MBA or Msc doesn't necessarily make you a better manager or engineer.

 

[hokie66]

One thing to consider...if you intend to continue frequenting Eng-Tips, don't admit to having an MBA.

 

[malikasal]

Thank you guys that was helpfull,

Lomarandil : Can you please give me the website with the study plan of your MSc?



ôIf you don't build your dream someone will hire you to help build theirs.ö

Tony A. Gaskins Jr.

 

[Maui]

Getting an MBA, which we refer to here as "going to the dark side", is a career path that many have taken. If you go this route you would be well served by following hokie's advice. I have little respect for the vast majority of MBAs that I have known. This is based on my experience in dealing directly with them in a work environment. There are a few that I hold in high regard, but they are the exceptions. You can think of MBA as standing for any of the following:

MBA = Mediocre But Arrogant
= Massive Brain Aneurysm
= Mighty Bad Advice
= Master Bull$hit Artist

You get the idea.

Maui

 

[TheTick]

You haven't even decided what you want to do. How can you choose a degree?

Wait... that's how people end up in MBA school anyhow. MBA it is. Promise me you'll put "MBA" after your name, like all those knobs who think they're doctors.

 

[Lomarandil]

malikasal: The engineering management program was etm.mines.edu

 

[Terratek]

You know how people scoff at those fancy college degrees? You know, the ones who don't have a college degree? I'd say that's about what I see when I see an engineer scoffing at an MBA. The president of the company where I work as an MBA and he is an excellent engineer.

Having an MBA will certainly not hurt your career and would open up so many more doors to other higher paying jobs if you decided that you were tired of engineering in the future. Most engineers (myself included) with 10 years experience and no MBA would be hard pressed to change engineering disciplines, let alone make a complete career change, without taking a 40 to 50 percent pay cut. With an MBA, for example, you could stop engineering, get a job in finance and start out making the same or possibly more than you were as a structural engineer. Not that you will or should, but the options are far greater with an MBA.

Regarding a master's in structural engineering: You don't need an advanced degree to obtain more technical depth, but it sure makes it a lot easier. At least, that's been my experience.

You don't need an MBA to advance into upper management, but it could be the difference maker between you and the other guy. Just being able to speak the business terminology will make you appear much more competent that someone equally as competent who just doesn't know the lingo.

Either way, its hard to go wrong with more education. You will see higher returns on investments in your human capital the earlier you start. If your company will pay for the education, even better.

 

[TheTick]

Another fantastic feature of the MBA quest is apathy and underperformance in one's current engineering role. It's a predictable disease among MBA students in engineering.

Last time I encountered it was when I noticed a drop in quality of service from a vendor rep. I asked him how his MBA was going, he said "Fine, thanks for asking.", not realizing he never told me he was in MBA school.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

Where you get your MBA plays a big role as to where the degree can take you, due to the quality of the program and alumni connections. I knew of two people that dropped out of their careers for a couple of years to attend Brown and I don't think they were worse off for it. Payscale has a listing of ROIs on different degrees from different universities. Some universities have pretty low ROIs on their MBA programs. Low enough that I personally wouldn't bother if I had to pay the tuition.

 

[Maui]

From what I understand Harvard is considered by many to have the top MBA program in the country.

Maui

 

[IRstuff]

ROI is also partly what you do with your degree and how much it cost; if you spend $200k to get a psychology degree and then become a social worker; the ROI is going to stink pretty bad. If you spent $42k, then it might not be that bad.

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[FishTheStructure]

I am in Canada, but in a somewhat similar situation. I completed my MASc in structural directly after undergrad. At least at large consulting firms, the MASc is (or is quickly becoming) a minimum requirement for entry level positions (whether this is for better or worse is another topic all together).

I am planning on applying to and starting my MBA in the fall. Some of the factors that helped me reach this decision include: my consulting firm has identified me as a future leader and thus my firm is willing to pay for my MBA, the natural progression in a consulting company is to move into positions requiring managerial skills (finance, marketing, negotiations, motivation), and I believe it will help open doors earlier (leading teams, access bigger clients, etc.(

Personally, I would not start my MBA if I did not already have a MASc as technical excellence is, and will remain, the foundation of my consulting position.


Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds - Albert Einstein

 

[jpankask]

Terratek brings up a good point I haven't seen discussed. Does your employer offer tuition assistance, or direct payment for an advanced degree? If so, you should be checking with them for what is allowed. They may not be willing to pay for an MBA, but may pay most or all of the MSc...which could be a big factor in your decision. Having either degree paid for, vs. you shelling out $30k-$60k or more will have a big effect on the ROI. Availability of the program itself also is a factor. Do you have a major university nearby that offers one or both programs...or will you be earning your degree through distance learning. If your choice is MBA from University of Phoenix online or a structural engineering masters from Georgia Tech, OR MBA from Harvard or MSc from New Jersey Institute of Technology...the advice you get will be very different. [NOTE: no offense to any alumni of NJIT...it just popped up in Google as an engineering university with a high cost and low graduation rate]

 

[Panther140]

MBA is good if you want to go into management or start a different career in bean counting. Masters in engineering is probably the ticket if you seek to become a more decorated engineer.
If you get your PE, you can ACTUALLY go into business and promote yourself to CEO without an MBA. Everybody has an MBA. A person who is inclined to do well in business will be able to recognize that it introduces you to a game nearing zero sums.

 

[PittEng88]

I received my MS in Structures 4 years ago (can't believe it has been that long already!). At the time of graduation, I was still an EIT with only 2 years of experience under my belt. However, I was hired by a company, who was looking for a PE with a minimum of 5 years experience. They told me flat out, they decided to hire me because of my MS. I ran into a similar situation with the company I work for now as well. So in my particular case, having a MS really helped boost my career.

However, like many others have said it is really up to you to decide which path to go down.

 

[clouser]

My 2 cents is that most titles don't mean anything and that the best career path is to ultimately work for yourself. When you work for someone else, your success will always be limited. And you trade that fact for security of a hopefully steady paycheck.

Most of the PE's I know won't sign a calc. They got the PE for their business card.

I think the PE process is a joke anyways, in America that is. Some engineer employed by the government is going to determine if I'm competent or not in a field that they may or may not be proficient at? I don't think so. I graduated from a university that is certified by the state. That and an awareness of the civil responsibilities that come with my profession should be more than enough to register as a professional. So I am a conscientious objector to the PE process.

If I see someone with a PE, I am immediately suspect. There are obvious exceptions, such as Civil and Structural engineers who are often required to stamp designs. But that doesn't change the fact that the process is fallacious.

Most of the engineers I know who got MBA's weren't the best engineers. They were career-minded individuals. So in that sense, they were right to get MBA's, because they just couldn't wait to climb the ladder.

To me, I just couldn't understand it. In my simple mind, an engineer wants to be an engineer. Why suffer through an engineering undergrad program if you just want to shoot your way into management? These people seem unstable mentally to me. There are rare exceptions, such as someone who has reached the pinnacle of his technical career and his company wants him to get an MBA to advance.

When I worked for Northrop, an engineer took the helm. Someone said to him, "it's great to see an engineer in charge!" He quickly replied, "well I have an MBA too". I though: so what, so did the idiots at Enron.

Masters and PhD's depends on your field and who you want to work for. I only have a BSME, but almost completed a BSEE and had enough graduate course work that I should have probably just finished a Masters as well. But to me, the titles weren't as important as the knowledge. So I just overloaded on coursework and made sure to finish at least one degree before my GI bill ran out.

I've interviewed a bunch of recent graduates with the title of "BSME", which should mean something. Apparently it doesn't anymore because most that I've interviewed don't even know how an internal combustion engine works. That's only the most significant invention up until the computer and most of us use it daily. So to me, titles don't mean anything any more. It's really about how the rubber hits the road.

 

[SouthernEngineer]

The value of both MS and MBA is questionable. As you can see here, some people even resent the people that have more advanced degrees. And those people hire engineers. The resentment is based on what the extra study and time adds to most problem-solving questions. And the answer is usually very little to none. My MBA has probably helped me talk to accountants and managers at my company more confidently and even help them correct mistakes they were making. If you end up in a position of higher authority at a medium to large corporation, an MBA will give you the basic boot camp skills to avoid making a fool of yourself and ruining your company by following old, illegal, or outdated methods.

I got my MBA at night after work and it took 5 years but I didn't spend $200,000 to get it by quitting work and losing years of income and paying high tuition. In fact, my companies reimbursed me for my fees and books. Overall, I think it makes me a better engineer. I have saved my company $5 million dollars in the past 15 years and I think the number would be a lot lower if I didn't get my MBA. Accountants tend to audit engineering cost in their own way and engineers don't often understand why. My courses in those same areas helped me communicate with the accounting team and others to get the numbers corrected and in my favor.

I was reading business books all the time anyway, I thought I might as well get the degree. It's up to you and depends on your situation, but both degrees will be very hard to get while working so think about it carefully. It will take you longer that you may assume. Do not expect to get a CEO job when you get out. I sure didn't.

I also don't make a lot more money with it, although I believe it's looked upon favorably by most people at my business favorably. It may have helped me keep my job more than once. If anything, some people see it as another goal (a hard one) that you set for yourself and you finished. I had my boss ask about my MBA at a dinner with other employees. One of my co-workers said, "I started my MBA, too, back years ago.." and my boss said "yes, but he finished his."