Micromanagement! 2

[vc66]

All-

I am having a problem with one of my managers. He is an extremely knowledgeable engineer; however, he micromanages the department TREMENDOUSLY.

He is my boss' boss, and should not concern himself (in my opinion) with daily tolerance analyses, limits/fits calcs, etc. It is getting to the point where things are not shipping out because there is always a philosophical engineering argument to be had about a design. He also, for some reason, feels that if he did not create a specific design that there must be something wrong with it, and that he can do it better.

Am I crazy? I feel like my company should just hire monkeys that they can train to use CAD instead of hiring engineers.

Is there anything I can do to shield myself from some of his micromanagement? Should I look elsewhere for a job?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

V

 

[mechengdude]

Your first sentence was telling..."ONE of my bosses" which implies you have more than one which is a problem from the get go.

Your bosses boss should not be coming to you on a regular basis. Rather your direct supervisor should be shielding you from such non-sense.

I would speak to your direct supervisor and ask for his guidance / opinion first.

 

[KENAT]

Your boss's boss knows something about limits, fits tolerance analysis etc.

I'm jealous.

Seriously in this place our senior engineering management are the other end of the spectrum. I don't know about your site but most of the engineers here don't worry about these things and it causes issues.

As regard micromanagement, I'll be interested to see what others say. If you get on well with your direct boss talk to him as mechengdude says, however depending on politics (I assume you have politics like our site) this may not be a good idea.

Perhaps you could mention it to John if you bump into him in the corridor;-)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[cvg]

your boss is not doing his job and as a result it is affecting the entire department. in general, you should not be answering directly to your bosses boss. The problem is a boundary issue. your bosses boss is overstepping his bounds and your boss apparently doesn't have the cajones to stop him. This won't stop until your boss decides to make a change. I would start looking for another job.

 

[drawoh]

vc66,

There is one thing worse than an engineer micromanager. It is a non-engineer micromanager. Unfortunately, all sorts of people can look over your shoulder and conclude that they understand what you are doing to the point that they can take charge and make decisions. We all know what plates and screws and gears do. What could possibly go wrong?

Electronic and software designers have it easy. Even if they are trained to do the work, it is not worth the micromanager's trouble to figure out the awful gibberish on the computer screen.

I think the best argument against micromanagement by qualified professionals is that some decisions require analysis and careful thought. Four years of college and twenty years of experience is no substitute for having lived with the design and the drawing package for the past month. As the designer, you know what the part is attached to, and what your error budget is.

A fundamental problem with mechanical design, that non-designers do not understand, is that everything is attached to or affected by everything else. This is especially true if the assembly is to be small and light, and you are doing DFMA. Micromanagers usually focus on a detail somewhere, and if it is something you did a month ago, it is hard to remember the big picture issues you worried about at the time. This is a good way to cause mistakes.

If this manager wants to review design concepts, he should do it early in the design process while you are still flexible about changes.

Perhaps you should talk to your boss, and have a careful, diplomatic chat with the manager.

JHG

 

[GregLocock]

Treat him as a resource not a problem. Managing managers is probably a skill worth acquiring.

The downside is that if you annoy him he can hurt your prospects. The good side is ...(fill in the dots)



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Gymmeh]

I bet your bosses boss just misses being a real engineer.

Not that this helps your situation...

 

[csd72]

every office needs micro management.

That way when the real work needs to get done you can safely hide the little creatures in your draw where they will do the least amount of damage!

 

[melone]

Why are there philosophical differences between your bosses boss and his / her department? Perhaps, that is the root of the problem. If the team isn't implementing his / her vision, then he / she SHOULD get in there and ruffle some feathers!

 

[IRstuff]

Frankly, I agree with the OP. A manager's job is to MANAGE his employees. If he wants to do the engineering himself, he should hire MONKEYS. Otherwise, he should keep his nose OUT and SHUT UP.

If he needs to direct the engineers technically, then:
> his hiring of your boss was a BAD decision
> the engineers need to either be fired or sent back to school
> the hiring of such bad engineers was due to HIS BAD management and his direct submanager's BAD management

Unfortunately, many technical people who become managers can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that the engineers they hired are either competent, in which case they should be allowed to do their job, or they're not, in which case they should be fired.

We used to have GM of a 5000 employee division going to technical presentations and arguing arcane technical points with the presenters. Naturally, he got his division stolen from him because he was too busy playing with technical things instead of minding the store.

That's one reason why I consider my current GM to be the best GM I've ever had in 27 yrs. He's a finance guy, but he's not one of those dorks that think that putting timers of copy machines is an effective means of saving money. Moreover, he keenly knows his limitations, and while he'll challenge his engineers, he accepts the basic concept that they were hired to engineering jobs and should be allowed to do so without interference. I just hope that he won't retire before I do...

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[vc66]

I'm just sick of people asking me where things are. I can't tell them, "Oh yea, my boss' boss has to look over the tolerance analysis to make sure he agrees with it..." I have to suck it up and tell them that I'll get them the information as soon as I'm able to.

That's so ANNOYING.

If that's not enough... my boss' boss' boss (yes, that's right) doesn't seem to care about anything.

What a world...

As Rodney Dangerfield says, "No Regard! I get no regard!"

Keep the advice coming... I really appreciate it, all.

V

 

[mechengdude]

Can you not instruct those that ask status that:

"The status of Project X is that it is pending review by Mr. Y. If you would like a specific date when that task will be completed, please contact Mr. Y directly."

Professional, concise, factual.

 

[vc66]

They all know where everything is. Anything I tell them would be obvious. Although, you're absolutely right that that would be the correct and professional way to address the situation. I think that's how I will handle it from now on. Thanks, mechengdude...

I think I'm just getting tired of thinking I'm done with a project when, all of a sudden, it needs to be reviewed by Mr. Y... even though we've had numerous design reviews on the project that he's been a part of.

V

 

[macmet]

VC66...

I am in a similar position. My Mr. Y always disagrees with me. He isn't even involved in the projects but he still makes me get approvals on the simplest things.

For example...Pretend I'm in a situation where I could pick either option A or option B, and say I pick option A. I then take my choice to Mr. Y and he will make me switch to option B. However, I have recently noticed that if I give it a week or so and go back and tell him I picked option B, he will have me switch it back to option A. I am certain he doesn't remember the initial conversation and he just considers the second conversation as another opportunity to prove how smart he is. Anyway, this new method has saved everyone a lot of time now that we no longer have to change our drawings, orders, etc.

Having said that, I do need his help for some aspects of our projects on occasion and I treat those times differently.

But the micromanagement drives me insane. What can you do though?

Other then look for a new job...

 

[rbcoulter]

Give that boss a fake project to work on. Or design a system with a bunch of bogus knobs and ask that boss how the knobs should be set. Listen intently to this boss and admire and complement all his/her suggestions and then go about doing it your way instead. Above all, find something for this boss to do!

 

[IRstuff]

That sounds simple. Always pick the option you DON'T want and have him countermand you. It's WIN/WIN

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[vc66]

My suggestion to other's who feel the same way at my site, was that they should let him be Chief Engineer of Everything Holy... Give him a big corner office, and let him engineer whatever the hell he wants, as long as he promises not to come out for the duration of the day.

I know that usually being a very good engineer makes you a bad manager (I know there are exceptions), but this is ridiculous.

The latest that he's disagreed with me on is a stack-up where he's convinced that I need to take into account that the vendor may not make the part correctly, to the print! WTF?

Sorry for the rants, I'm just frustrated.

Thank you for all your advice/comments. Keep 'em comin'.

V

 

[KENAT]

The latest that he's disagreed with me on is a stack-up where he's convinced that I need to take into account that the vendor may not make the part correctly, to the print

So he obviously doesn't get tolerance analysis then.

It's one thing someone butting in all the time if they're usually right (still annoying to some extent), but if he's frequently wrong or just arbitrary...

You could always start planning your schedule with a week for him to review it at the end and a week or two after that to make (or not) his requested changes. At least if people are expecting it up front it wont be a shock.

Can't you somehow get him distracted by the outsourcing issue, seems an easy target here at the moment?

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[mechengdude]

I'm starting to get a clearer picture of your pain. Getting "corrected" on a regular basis seems a right of passage for all young engineers but once you get some experience or are subjected to arbitrary crap it can be extremely hard to swallow.

IRStuff's recommendations sounds good and is similar to tatics I have used in the past. Recently I have used a tatic where I chose not to speak during an entire meeting. I found even when asked direct questions, if I paused long enough, there were enough people in the meeting that liked to hear themselves talk enough that they would begin to "answer" their own question.

My point is that when dealing with poor managers, folks with self esteem or ego issues it is sometimes less painful when you just smile and laugh inside to yourself.

Good luck.

 

[vc66]

Believe me... I LOVE being told I'm wrong by someone more experienced than me... it gives me a chance to learn something. I think I might take both of your advice, KENAT and mechengdude...

He loves, neigh, ADORES hearing himself talk, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to get him going.

I will start planning my schedule to include "Mr. Y's Review Time", and see how it pans out.

KENAT-- don't even get me started on the outsourcing...

I will let you all know how I fare in the coming weeks. Thanks very much for all your help, and if there are any other pearls of wisdom, please feel free...

V