Moving On

[calguy07]

I currently work for an EPC in the utility industry; my first engineering job after graduation. I've been here for close to 3 yrs now but over the last few months, I've been thinking about moving on. I've been an electrical designer after starting out as a drafter.

The company I'm with is pretty small and I've been getting stuck with the same type of projects and I'm just about bored with it. I definitely don't know all there is to know about our niche field but I haven't really been "allowed" to do anything else. I don't think its because they think I'm incapable as I've been getting bigger projects (and completing them well ahead of deadlines)..but even in this case I can't be sure as don't have performance reviews (which is another thread altogether actually).

So I've continued to work on the same projects but I'm beginning to want something more. I don't feel like I have any new skillsets since starting here a couple of years ago. I've learned a lot about the utility industry, how things are done, etc.

I've talked about this with my engineering manager about this on more than one occasion and they somehow keep forgetting. The problem is that, other than this, I really can't complain about being here. I have a great project manager and get along with everyone here.

I've been thinking of moving on once I pass the 3 yr mark. The problem is that the utility industry here is pretty small and our owner pretty much knows everyone (which is how he gets and continues to get a lot of our work). My plan is to jump to the other side of the fence and see what its like to work for one of our clients, the actual utility company. There seems to be more of an opportunity to do and learn more at those places and actually develop my career which is what I want as I feel stuck right now. We're a small company and although I've done ok with the daily chaos, I feel like I need the structure, long term stability and opportunity for progression that I think I can get from the utility companies.

So, first question is, when and how did you guys decide that its time to move on? Were there any regrets? I'm just thinking that I'll move on, not like it and regret giving up something that wasn't that bad after all.

Next question is how do I navigate the whole job searching/networking thing without anyone finding out??

Thanks

 

[ctopher]

HS or college graduation?
If HS, I suggest go to college.
In today's economy, I would stay where you are for now.
Why wait for management to tell you when you can learn more? Get yourself out to other departments (breaks, lunch) and learn what you can.
The first 3 years...your barely starting to learn the trade.
If you really need to move on, find a better position first, then give 2 weeks notice.

Chris
SolidWorks 08, CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[msquared48]

"If you really need to move on, find a better position first, then give 2 weeks notice."

In today's economy, this is the golden rule of survival. Heed it.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[calguy07]

"Why wait for management to tell you when you can learn more? Get yourself out to other departments (breaks, lunch) and learn what you can."

...because I got into trouble for doing that once.

I graduated from college by the way.

 

[ctopher]

I got in trouble doing it also, until my manager saw improvements.
You can learn on your own time during lunch.
Some managers like employees taking their own initiative.

Chris
SolidWorks 08, CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[Eleceng01]

You got in trouble for trying to learn more?!!!!!

What types of managers do you have? I have repeatedly PRAISED my staff for trying to better themselves (especially on their own time)!

Nothing makes ME more excited than for a junior engineer/designer to come into my office with questions they have from a technical paper, book, manual, etc.

I believe your supervisors need to rethink your efforts.

 

[calguy07]

"Nothing makes ME more excited than for a junior engineer/designer to come into my office with questions they have from a technical paper, book, manual, etc."

Well, that's kinda what I did. There was a particular software program that only a couple of guys in the office knew how to use at that time. I spent about 20-30min going over some stuff regarding the software. The software is used in a lot of the projects I work on. Knowing it will mean I get to take over pretty much all of the aspects of my projects, which I want, instead of leaving that portion to those with that expertise.

The problem is that we charge clients by the hour so, to him, I took 20-30 min away from not only my time but from the person I asked the questions to. I see where he was coming after he explained himself.

 

[IRstuff]

That was still short-sighted and unprofessional. A better manager would have clearly explained the situation, and given you some options for learning on your own time and not reducing other workers' productivity.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[cksh]

I was in a somewhat similar situation. Great company for the most part, great people, great boss. But there was little room to move up (other than a title change), and through conversations with my boss and other people experiencing the same thing I new it was time to go.

They never promoted from within while I was there. And while trying to figure out what graduate degree to pursue I was more or less told that my job is my job and that's what I was going to do regardless. This was a Japanese company so the philosphy was different then any other company I had worked for.

I wanted more responsibility, more project management work, and less time worrying about why the plant wants me to create three different sets of prints with different standards

The industry I am in is extremely large but everyone knows everyone else regardless of company. Probably because most of them have been doing it for 20+ years minimum. I didn't ralize that until I started at my current job and everyone asked if I knew so and so etc. This has happened a couple of times in the past. I have never had trouble with the boss finidng out (and one did but didn't care).

I might be worried if I was leaving on bad terms, or the boss was disgruntled. But as long as you are professional about it, wait for the offer letter before giving notice, and leave in good standing you are probably good to go. At least you can leave with your integrity intact.

To be honest, on a couple of occasions I have kept it secret where I was going. But if the new boss knows the old boss and gives him a call you could be in trouble. Looking back I think it would have been better to act professional and expect professionlism in return.

I definitely got what I asked for though in my new company. good or bad

 

[Japher]

I don't like your company, sounds like they want grunts and not employees looking for a career. I would definitely consider getting out of there or moving up the ladder as quickly as possible. Here are some ideas:

1. Go back to school, part time. I hate how people believe that their employer should be responsible for their personal development. If they won't help you, as it appears the won't, than you need to take the matters in your own hands. Apply yourself and take trainings on that software in your own time, look at certificate programs, go back for a MS, or a MBA. All these things will give you greater bargaining power.

2. Jumping ship isn't jumping ship if you give ample notice. 2 weeks is standard, even in good times. Giving more is also doable, but if you feel there will be hard feelings or resentment keep it to 2 weeks.

3. Don't just look at the other side of the fence or others on your side of the fence, look at those who are creating the fence. Who is paying who? Follow the money.

 

[calguy07]

Japher,

Thanks for the ideas. Even though I already have an MSEE, I've been looking into option 1 but for things that are more specific to the utility industry that will set me apart somehow but I've come up empty so far. I have, however, been working on the software a bit on my free time on the weekends. What really bugs me is that they've got another EIT working on this stuff already. In their eyes, he may be developing ahead of me at this point in time but I think I should at least have the opportunity to catch up at some point.

I also like option 3 but I'm pretty sure that I can't stay on the same side of the fence. There's a matter of "intellectual property" which prohibits me from going to another competing EPC company. There's some serious bad blood between my boss and the other main company that we compete with. Working for the actual utility companies seems more appealing to me for now.

 

[Eleceng01]

Calguy,

20-30 minutes! I am a consultant so I am constantly measured by "billable hours' & helping junior engineers is NOT billable so I work 45 hour weeks usually (only 40 turned into accounting). Those extra 5 hours are for personal growth (my studying) & helping others.

Try explaining that the more people that are able to 'do the work (in your case, use the software)' the more work that can be sold!

Your manager is short-sighted! What will happen if the gurus quit,pass away, retire?

 

[BJC]

IF your building Transmissioin Lines and Substations you'r in demand.
If you have 1 years experiences 3 times or 6 months experience 6 time it's time to move.

 

[Zapster]

Calguy07,

You stated that you had a MSEE, did you sit for the PE exam in your state (that is if you are in the USA, not sure about other country’s licenses).

If so, and you are licensed, it may be time to look around a little. If you are not licensed, it might be a good time to study for the exam.

 

[CTW]

"So, first question is, when and how did you guys decide that its time to move on?"

When I was no longer challenged by the work and did not see a career path within that organization. There was no promotion to the next level, only a change in job title which still meant the same type of work.

"Were there any regrets?"

No. I miss the friends and relationships that I had built during my tenure there, and sometimes miss the atmosphere, but overall the change was positive. I too spent a lot of time wondering if I'm doing the right thing, or if I'll regret changing jobs. But in the end, it wasn't bad at all.

"Next question is how do I navigate the whole job searching/networking thing without anyone finding out??

This isn't as bad as it seems although you have to be cautious. You can post confidential resumes online for instance. This works out really well. Once a company is interested, you can send them your regular resume. I used my cell phone a lot to make calls at work. If needed, I would take a day off work for an interview or schedule the interview for later in the evening after work.

 

[spongebob007]

My advice to recent graduates would be to not spend too much time at any one job. If you don't look around, you won't know what's out there and you won't be able to figure out what you like and don't like. I really think the idea that being seen as a job hopper is a negative thing is very old fashioned, especially early in your career. In my first five years out of school, I held four different jobs. Three of those jobs were direct, one was as a contractor. My first job out of school was for a big defense contractor. I didn't like being a number-one of probably over 1000 engineers at the company. I also didn't like the big company culture and I could see it being very easy to be pigeonholed at that job. I also worked for a very small privately owned company where the entire engineering department was four people. I also did not like that. After several different jobs I finally decided that I prefer medium sized companies where there is room for advancement, but the place is not so big that you are just lost in a crowd.

It is my opinion that early on in your career, you can grow more by experiencing different jobs/industry/company types than you can by spending a bunch of years at your first job out of school.

 

[calguy07]

Zapster,

I'm not at the four yr mark (1.5yrs more to go) as yet but I'll be looking into the P.Eng requirements in the coming months. I've always been doubtful as to how my experiences matches up.

To update, I recently had a talk with our most senior engineer. I requested that we spent about 20-30 min each week to discuss the technical aspects of each of my projects to make sure that the directions I plan to take are correct, but my request was declined. He basically doesn't have the time to do any type of mentoring at all.

As this is my first engineering job out of school, I'm not sure if I'm just unrealistic as to how much mentoring is usually done. So far I've been ok; I just don't want to end up making a major technical oversight that could have been caught earlier had I been working a lot closer with a senior person.

 

[HgTX]

That is *not* good. Your 4 years as an EIT are supposed to be where they're providing the T. Refusing to mentor is not in keeping with that.

If you're thinking about moving and have the opportunity to do so, this is just one more reason. (But try to get them to sign off on your experience before you leave, if you're going to pursue licensure.)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[gwolf2]

" I requested that we spent about 20-30 min each week to discuss the technical aspects of each of my projects to make sure that the directions I plan to take are correct, but my request was declined. "

Either you are not telling us all the full story and he hates you for some other reason, or this is a company inhabited by bad people who want to protect what meagre knowledge they have to maintain their position and income.

Let's assume they are the bad guys. Get out asap but only when you have another job. Relocate if necessary but if you do, make sure that there are about 3 medium-large companies within commuting distance of your potential new home.

I would NEVER deny a grad 30 minutes/week for mentoring - unless I didn't really know what I was talking about, or what I knew was so simple that I didn't want the competition.

gwolf

 

[gwolf2]

I should say that fortunately I am not like that. But lots of people are..........................