Moving to Canada as Electrical Engineer - Entry Level 15

[hmmy]

Hello everyone,

I have decided soon to immigrate to Canada from Greece to build my career as Electrical Engineer (I am fresh-graduated). Tell me general your opinion and especially for the following things:

1) What regions are better for electrical engineers? I have seen, British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario.

2) I want to work in a combination of software engineering and electrical engineering in oil - natural gas industry. What programming languages and software programs I have to focus on? I know very well Matlab (Simulink etc) and C / C++ programming languages, but I do not think they are enough... My plan is to improve my knowledge in Python, Java, IEC 61131-3 programming languages for PLC and Autocad. What else?

Thanks in advance.

Are you ready for the future?

 

[zdas04]

If you want to work in Oil & Gas, then your odds improve in Alberta (and maybe BC, out east they hate this industry).

You really don't seem committed to the EE role. In this industry any programming tends to be done by contractors, and software developers can be found in any sizable town in any of the provinces. An EE in Oil & Gas spends his whole life dealing with area classification, Load calcs, and code compliance issues. No programming language expertise required for that.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[KENAT]

hmmy - one regular poster here 'Moltenmetal' has posted several times about oversupply of engineers in Canada.

thread730-378704

You may want to investigate more just what youre employment prospects really are - especially with the recent drop in oil prices (which may well reverse sooner than later but currently seems to have an impact on employment in the field).

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[macmet]

I live in Canada and do not think it is a great time to be moving to Alberta. The province was booming for a number of years, but no longer. I have worked with some controls groups in BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, but also in Ontario and Nova Scotia. So although you might have better odds looking in Alberta, don't limit yourself to it alone.

If you are interested in programming and software development I would be looking within a couple hours of Toronto.

 

[moltenmetal]

Thanks KENAT, it's nice to know that someone is paying attention to my rants!

To the OP: there is no shortage of fresh grad engineers here in Canada- in any province. Quite the contrary- there is a massive oversupply, with most grads having to work entirely outside engineering to make a living. Read that OSPE survey in KENAT's link cover to cover before you decide what to do- you would be insane not to do so!

Should you come? I wouldn't come without a job offer in hand prior to immigrating- unless you primarily want a new life in Canada and don't really care what you have to do for money to make that happen. In fact, I'm not sure HOW you will manage to immigrate without a job in hand- unless you are coming in as sponsored by a family member already settled in Canada- I'd really like to know how you're managing it. I realize the situation in Greece is bad, and Canada's in comparison might be better- but get it out of your head that it's the 1950s and we have a generalized shortage of engineers. That hasn't been so in at least two decades.

As to where in Canada- Alberta is in layoff mode as a result of slumping oil prices. Thousands there are finally realizing that people who told them that oil and gas is a cyclic business and that the bust is inevitable, were not lying. Toronto's unemployment rate is above the national average, but being the biggest place it also has the largest number of opportunities.

 

[macmet]

I might also suggest that you look into obtaining all the requirements necessary to get your P.Eng status once you move here. Each province in Canada is different, so I can only speak for my own, but in Ontario only degrees from some countries are automatically considered to meet the educational requirements. I do not know off hand if Greece is one of those countries where you qualify, so I would check the PEO website if you would consider Ontario. At a minimum, I would check to make sure you can at least get your EIT designation (engineer in training??). I believe this would make you more attractive to potential employers.

 

[IRstuff]

Certain regions in the US are doing tolerably well. Facebook has just expanded to a new building across from the old Sun Micro campus and are looking to hire, but supposedly having trouble finding qualified engineers. The "Silicon Beach" of Los Angeles is supposedly booming, as well

http://www.represent.la/#

http://www.siliconbeachla.com/

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529


Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
There is a homework forum hosted by engineering.com:

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

 

[hmmy]

Thank you all for your answers. I will tell you some things about my plans and the circumstances.

About Greece: The situation is so bad that it could not be worse. 1 million problems exist in present and 1 million problems are expected during the next 10 - 20 years. For young well-educated people, especially younger than 30 years old, it is "mandatory one-way" to emigrate from Greece as soon as possible. The last 10 years no one in Greece cares about young well-educated people. The unemployment for young people is more than 60% and the majority of scientists, engineers, lawyer, doctors etc, leave the country. All the governments care about retirees and the "old mode" of public services. More than 80% of services by inter workers, can be done by computers - software, but governments and old Greeks, don't want to change it. A big lack of meritocracy. And if you look in the far future, the situation is worse. A country without development, without production - output, without manufacture - industry, with an unsustainable debt, with unsustainable pension scheme, with a stupid public system. If things will continue with this way, I think ISIS will be in Greece, during the next 10 years.

So, yes, I have decided to start my life from zero in another country. And I want it to happen, far away from Greece and South Europe general. Just for a safe future of my kids. So me, and two other friends have chosen to come in Canada. We will try to find a job (at least one of us) before our moving. In the begin we will come with the IEC - Working Holiday program. We will have work permit for 1 year, and then if we will like the things there, we will try to become permanent residents with Express Entry or with something else. And if then everything will be ok, why not a master in a Canadian university? I prefer Vancouver and BC, just because Oceanic Climate is my favorite, but I do not think that I have the choice to choose climate.

About me, I have a 5-year-diploma in Electrical and Computer Engineering, and if I will have the opportunity, I will choose the NOC code 2173 Software Engineers and Designers. If not, then I will choose the NOC code 2133 Electrical and electronics engineers. I like very much the programming languages, the software and everything new - innovative in technology (for example it would be paradise for me to work even in the lowest level of a robotic subject).

About Canada, I cannot understand why many of you believe that the situation is not good. I have never heard that there is brain drain problem in Canada, like in South Europe. Generally, I know, that Canada and USA, don't let well-educated people to leave the country. These countries know how to reclaim - invest in them, even in low degree. About Alberta, I know that oil price is near to 60 dollars, but everyone says that it will get up, and maybe in October when I will be there, it will be 80 dollars. And Canada belongs to the top countries in the evolution - development - innovation in technological and scientific subjects. Greece belongs in "tail" of these subjects.

Please, tell me your opinion about my - our plans, and forgive me for my so big monologue. Just if you don't understand, in Greece, we have "passed away". There are not opportunities to find job, to have the survival money, to build a career or to create a family. Everything has ended and there is not future. Inside Eurozone, or outside Eurozone, it does not matter. The situation will be the same. In Canada, we don't expect to become wealthy or mayors in Toronto. Simple things, just a small career, and a simple family, without worries for the future of our kids.

Thanks in advance.

 

[macmet]

It may be wise to go straight for a Master's. When I was in school there were many foreign grad students. If you like Vancouver, they have a very nice school there, UBC.

I think the complaints by Canadians is all relative. I suppose we have been lucky, the brain drain here is different. I hear about it often in other professions where there is much more money to be made in other countries. I think of doctors and lawyers moving to the US when I say this. I do not think the same brain drain is an issue for engineers, if anything it is the opposite. I can go on LinkedIn or Monster in Toronto and find (probably) hundreds of jobs. Whether they are good jobs or not, I don't know, I suppose that is up to the individual. I find the value of the engineer low here. With so many applicants, why would companies pay top dollar for an engineer when they can get their second choice for $10K less?

But depending on what you are looking for, Canada may be a great choice. I actually cannot think of an unemployed engineer in my group of friends at the moment. So maybe we are just spoiled.

Along with my earlier suggestion of getting your professional engineer license lined up you can check out the Canada InfoNet program if you have not already. It is an organization that helps engineers, and possibly other professions, assistance immigrating to Canada.

 

[KENAT]

"I have never heard that there is brain drain problem in Canada,"

hmmy, you misunderstand us. The supposed problem is the opposite. There are more 'engineering brains' than can be used in their relevant fields.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[miningman]

AS an imigrant myself I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that Canada is one of the best places in the world. And dont believe everyone who tells you that $60 oil is a catastrophe. I work in the mining industry and even now the trade I have most trouble filling is electrians and electrical engineers. Of course I talking about those willing to work with me in remote locations. Pay is excellent and you can live in Vancouver or any major centre. Just dont get hung up on what you want to do, determine what employers are looking for!!!

 

[KENAT]

So miningman, are you looking for entry level electrical folk, or do you need those with some experience?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[miningman]

KENAT, I have just started a new project which actually will have minimal electrical demands. THe last project was $3.5 billion over 4 yeas, and as an owners rep, you wouldnt believe the poor quality of electrical engineers supplied to us by the EPCM contractor. Yes I always prefer experienced personnel but I think I had about eight EIT's working with closely with me over a 4 year period and with 2600 construction workers on site at one time, I couldnt begin to imagine how many apprentices there were in the field. Good sparkies are ALWAYS in demand and if they've got 3 or more years experience underground after the completion of their apprenticeship, they can pretty much write their own ticket.

 

[hmmy]

@macmet, I know UBC. It is one of my favorite Canadian Universities. About engineering license, it is required to pass an exam and then I will be in the Engineering-In-Training category.

@KENAT, I understood you.

@miningman what is your advice? How to search for a job? And in which fields I have to focus on? PLC programming and MATLAB have demand? I am willing to work anywhere in Canada, even in very remote cold locations. How can I contact you? I am not seeing the pm section in this forum.

Thank you all.

 

[miningman]

hmmy, sorry I dont have time or inclination to hold your hand. In the days of google, if you dont have the initiative to find these leads yourself, you probably wont be successful. Having said that, infomine.com is one of the best sites going. And again I dont have a clue what programming languages are used. What Im suggesting is that the guys in demand are those with heavy industrial experience at 575, 4160 and 13.8kv. Im sure there is demand somewhere for computer nerds, just not in my world.

 

[hmmy]

Anyway, thank you and everyone else for your help.

 

[moltenmetal]

hmmy: read the OSPE report- by your subsequent comments, you clearly either haven't done that yet, or didn't properly understand what you read. It spells the engineering supply/demand situation out in detail, based on the statistics rather than anecdotes, and does so not just for Ontario but for the country in total. If you immigrate here before you read that report, then you'll be an idiot, and in that case insult will both be intended and deserved. If you fly into Toronto, you are very likely to take a taxi driven by an Indian-educated engineer...Since you're clearly NOT an idiot, having had the good sense to post questions here before coming, you WILL read that report, and hence will go in with both eyes open.

Canada's a great country with a first-world economy (arguably...). There are plenty of opportunities generated here every year, in every field. Mind you, there are TEN TIMES as many opportunities of every kind in the US! You may be lucky and find one- or make one for yourself- but the likelihood of that for you is, realistically, VERY low. But without relevant work experience, you will be competing with thousands of fresh grads who were educated here, have English as a first language, and have at least some contacts through school, friends and parents/family etc. Some may not be as "hungry" as you are, but others are every bit as motivated, smart AND hungry- especially the ones whose immigrant parents sacrificed everything and worked in crappy survival jobs solely so that their kids could have a chance at a good future here! The ones from co-op universities will also have two years of relevant, local work experience, work-related references etc. that you don't have. If even 75% of those grads were finding work in their chosen field every year (about 93% of 4th year students say that this is what they want), then you might have a good chance- but the fact is, less than 50% of our own fresh engineering grads here get engineering jobs.

There are plenty of foreign students here already too- paying high foreign student tuitions in the hope that when they graduate, they can get a job via the Canadian Experience Class. You'll be competing with them too. And even if you do get a job on your year's student experience visa, there is no guarantee that you'll be able to parlay that automatically into permanent residency via the express entry route.

Nobody is complaining about a brain drain from Canada? Sure- and businesses here still scream "shortage"! But the shortages they're reporting are of the people with 10 years of experience that their industry didn't hire 10 years ago- those people, who others have trained for you, are always going to be in short supply! As to the brain drain: of the top 10% of my class (25 years ago, when times were WAY better in engineering supply/demand terms based on the stats), only two of us are still in Canada. The others are all in the 'States or Europe. Not all of them left by choice- they went where the work was. You're trying to do the same, and good luck to you. Just be realistic about the likelihood of success.

If you do choose to come: don't come without a pre-arranged job. Don't assume that a local Masters will give you a substantially greater shot at one- many have made that mistake before you. Apply to the professional association in the province you intend to settle in LONG BEFORE you come- or else, you may come here and find that your school or program is not an accredited engineering program as far as the licensure body is concerned and they will require you to write more technical exams. BC doesn't automatically make you write exams before they let you become an EIT, so I suggest you do your research better! Many employers use eligibility for licensure as a means to test whether you're really educated as an engineer, or not- most of us have no idea which universities in Greece are good and which are really just technician/technologist colleges. If you just want to code, Vancouver apparently has seen a recent surge in demand for code-slingers- but note that it's world-renowned as a great place to live, so it draws people from the entire rest of the country as well as the rest of the world for that reason- job competition is fierce. It's notoriously expensive in cost of living terms- worse than Toronto.

Miningman: EPCMs aren't running short of fresh grads to choose from, and they aren't loyal to them the second the economy takes a dive either. As to trades jobs in specific fields, the problem is getting in- nobody wants apprentices. The companies hiring people aren't just taking warm bodies. Everybody wants to outsource their training costs to somebody else. As to remote locations, getting experienced people who want to move there is tough- there's usually a spouse who also needs a job too, and who wants to live away from their family most of the time? Money isn't everything, and it's not like the engineering grads who can't find engineering work are going begging on the street- they're displacing people from other parts of the job market, outside of engineering- and THEY for the most part are the ones who are out on the street. It's an enormous waste of talent and potential.

 

[hmmy]

@ moltenmetal, I cannot understand why your behavior and your style are so bad and cold. Just I asked a few queries and I wanted to know some opinions for my plans. I did not say that I will come in Canada to kill you.

About OSPE report. Ok, I read it. And? I can find many reports which argue the opposite. And reports for the future. Just, I googled "engineering Canada 2020"... And I found it:

http://www.engineerscanada.ca/sites/default/files/w_Engineering_Labour_Market_in_Canada_oct_2012.pdf

So? What is the prediction for the next years? Official prediction from engineerscanada.ca

And British Columbia 2022 Labour Market Outlook:

https://www.workbc.ca/WorkBC/media/WorkBC/Documents/Docs/BC-LM-Outlook-2012-2022.pdf

They are not anecdotes. Read them and tell me your opinion...

Or do you think it is important to compare which sources are more reliable? Or if the number of optimistic reports are bigger than the pessimistic ones, does it mean something?

We will come, only if we have found a job (at least one) with skype interview before immigrating.

"BC doesn't automatically make you write exams before they let you become an EIT, so I suggest you do your research better!"

Here, you are not right.

Read this: Engineer-in-Training – This membership status indicates that the first step in the licensing process has been completed by satisfying the academic requirements and meeting the good character requirements. People with an engineer-in-training membership are working toward gaining the four years of engineering work experience they need—including one year in Canada—to become a professional engineer (P.Eng.).

http://newcomers.engineerscanada.ca/licensing-canada

I contacted APEGBC and they told me that my university is in designated ones, and just I have to pass an exam in general engineering.

About work experience, I want to say something. Of course an old man with 10 - 20 years experience is better than a fresh graduated, but only in the current work circumstances. A young fresh graduated has clear mind and ambition for active life. He can say: (like me), "I am willing to have a strong active life in the next 30 years". Can you hear it from a 40 years old man with 15 years experience?

A man with experience satisfies only the present. The future will be satisfied with investments on young people. For example the Express Entry gives just 80 points for experience more than 5 years, but 110 points for young people under the age of 30:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp#a4

 

[marty007]

I'll just weigh in on a couple of points regarding Vancouver and BC in general (this is where I live...).

At the moment anything related to oil/gas is looking pretty dismal. Over the past many years, there has been a lot of spillover from the Alberta oilsands economy, and that has ground to a halt with the low oil prices. That may change, and I hope it does on behalf of myself and everyone I work with.

BC has a couple of large projects that I'm aware of that would likely require electrical engineers:
[ul]
[li]Site C Dam: Multi-billion dollar hydroelectic project up north. Construction is expected to begin this summer per this link[/li]
[li]Future LNG export: The BC government has been spouting off about this for years. Based on the current state of the world, I wouldn't hold my breath on anything happening for many years to come. That said, if I am surprised (it would be pleasantly for my industry), it would be an enormous project that would demand many electrical engineers.[/li]
[li]Shipbuilding: I really don't know where things are at with the BC shipbuilding program. Seaspan Vancouver was awarded something in the order to 17 ships in the next ocuple of decades (old news article). I have no idea the status of this, but all ships need some sort of electrical design.[/li]
[/ul]

These are a few of the mega projects that are either happening or could happen soon.

Unfortunately I'm not in any way associated with the electrical fields, so couldn't even advise you if I wanted to. All I can say is that Vancouver truly is a beautiful place to live, but is also brutally expensive. If I didn't have roots here with family, or I didn't care so much about said roots, I'd seriously consider moving to a smaller interior community if I could find a job.

Good luck with whatever choice you make.

 

[chrislaope]

I feel sympathy to moltenmetal. In this real world, an honest person who tells the truth will always likely be ill treated by common people who only want to listen to faked pleasant words.