MRP & PDM

[CajunCAD]

My company currently used Made 2 Manage (M2M) as its MRP system. M2M allows us to link a file type (PDF for example) to Item Master entries, Manufacturing Routers, PO's etc...

We are also looking into implementing a PDM (Product Data Management) system to secure our documents (Standards, Procedures, Drawings, etc...).

Manufacturing wants to utilize M2M to pull & print documents "automatically". This will require some documents to be stored in a manner that I feel is not secure (user(s) can navigate the network to this location and copy files bypassing PDM). I think the personnel in manufacturing should be able to use M2M and a PDM system together.

Anyone out there faced with a similar dilemma?
Anyone with suggestions?

Thanks for any input.

Louis

 

[BillPSU]

CajunCAD
You are talking about a security issue which haunts all electronic designs. In-house people want access to all necessary drawings, standards, and procedures without a hassle. Your suppliers want access to the same pertinent information. Qaulity wants access to all prints for incoming and in-process inspection. Tool designers and CNC programmers want access to 3-D model. What are your security concerns? Are you looking at it from a designer's point of view or a users point of view? A simple solution for a designer may become a nightmare for other users. Another challenge is the format of the data. Another challenge is old versus new revisions. A PO is out on a part with an old revision. The supplier still has 100 parts on hand to the old revision and a new revision is released. Do you have the old revision still available to accept these old parts?

Some points to ponder.
Bill

 

[griffengm]

Cajun,
Your dilemma is the same we faced when qualifying for ISO. We had good control on drawings up to a point but no method to assure their currency nor the currency of procedures or other documents.
We implemented several processes to create the links needed.
First of all, any prints present on the shop floor needed to be attached to a shop/work order. Earlier, we had people maintaining departmental caches of prints. This led to outdated versions being used all too often.
Secondly, key points through the shop were identified for placement of procedures and responsibility assigned for maintenance of books of prints and procedures applicable to those areas. Any one could make a copy of any of the documents but if they were found using one without the appropriate stamp from the controller, they were subject to disciplinary action - day off, write up etc..
Thirdly, we used a weekly review by various supervisory level people to alert them of upcoming revisions or new products. There is also a weekly session by upper management to review problems, complaints, and product performance issues. This seems to defuse much of the everyday "firefighting" and avoids people making changes on the fly.
While the process is occasionally unwieldy it nevertheless keeps everyone headed in the same direction. It also forces us to look at root causes of problems instead of implementing 30 second fixes that create years of problems.
Now that I've given you the long answer, the short answer is DISCIPLINE for everyone from owner to floor sweeper.

Griffy

 

[BML]

Is it feasible to modify the MRP system so that it acts as an employee, with its own user id and password for the PDM system? Then when someone on the floor needs to print a drawing, the MRP system sends its info to the PDM system for retrieval.

Otherwise just put the drawings on the network and lock down that folder so only the MRP system can get in.

What about the security is at risk? Is it sensitive information on the documents stored, or just trying to make sure everyone uses the current rev and doesn't change anything?

 

[CajunCAD]

I agree that we must have discipline. Without this no system will work. I think this is going to be a higher profile issue here and compliance will be required.

Our security risks are twofold:
1) We need to maintain our proprietary data.
2) We need to eliminate the chance of someone printing, editing, deleting files (accidentally or intentionally).

I think we will need to implement a process where documents issued for manaufacture, test, inspection, etc... will need to be stamped with a colored ink and make it clear that we cannot allow copies to be made.

It looks like we are coming up with some workarounds to link MRP fields to documents to automate the printing process. Need to further investigate vendors/products to determine the appropriate solution.

Thanks for the input so far.

 

[MadMango]

We use a stamp on all drawings going out to the manufacturing floor. The stamp has an issue date, and the words "This drawing valid for 7 days." If a drawing is on the floor and is expired, the shop has to come to Document Control to get a new drawing with a new stamp. It satisfied our ISO concerns.

[green]"But what... is it good for?"[/green]
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[CajunCAD]

The big issue that is brewing is our manufacturing people don't truly want to use PDM. They see what appears to be a way to link a document to an MRP field and utilize this to access documents so there not a need for them to use PDM. Without knowing what our potential PDM software will be they seem to have settled on the solution to access documents thru MRP.

 

[PSE]

To make use of our system. All drawings have a notation on the "Uncontrolled if printed". It satisfies ISO and pretty much forces the issue of using and viewing the on line file. The files are done in a format accessibly to a browser .pdf etc. so that they are outside the native CAD environment and cannot be mistakenly modified.

Regards,

 

[griffengm]

Cajun,
If I'm not mistaken, PDM is much more than linking documents to product but also backfeeds information needed to manage efficiency and costing. The document control is really a short term portion of it. If your company wishes to work toward an Activity Based Costing methodology then you will need such info.
Then again, maybe you are already have the information generated in Made2Manage.

Griffy

 

[mcorker]

My 2 cents worth

Using a combination of network security and linking documents in your M2M system could provide a reasonable effective solution. You could implement something along these lines:

1) Engineers have network rights to upload files into the /productiondrawings folder
2) All other users are denied access to the folder
3) M2M uses a network service so that an attached document can only be printed thru the M2M application
4) Switch on the network logs - this will give you complete audit trail on when files were uploaded and by whom as well as when files were printed.
5)M2M automatically date stamps the document footer when printing ... Printed on MM/DD/YYYY valid until MM/DD+7/2004
6) Engineering needs to develop processes for when to release documents, how revisions are handled and when documents are retracted.


Regards


Mark Corker

http://www.seradex.com