Multiple, duplicate bolier fabrication HG-515.4(b) 1

[Konrad]

Hello,
My AI does not know, maybe I can get some help here. Sec IV allows production without AI's witnessing, under HG-515.4(b). Should I write the required procedure for just one project and one design, or can it be "flexible", so it might be used many times with various projects? It has to be approved by ASME Designee, so I'd rather not use a try and error way.

thanks
Konrad

 

[GenB]

The par is secific as to "multiple items"
means same design and size, the procedure has to be approved by everybody as states the Code.
It can be used several times for one design and one size of boilers and one production as your AI has to set the hold points so he/she will inspect the items intervalsas he/she sets the hold and/or verification points
if your AI does not understand it that is your first stop,
he has to be sure and approve the procedure first...

You can definitly doit but you have to comply with all the details and get all approvals. good luck,
er

 

[Konrad]

GenB,
Let me explain my problem closer. I have, say 20 various designs of H-stamped units. Do I have to go through approval procedure 20 times, each time writing, for instance "...check weld nos. 20, 21 and 22...", or can i write just one procedure "check all the welds"? The AI says it can be the latter way, but he's not just sure.

Konrad

 

[GenB]

The ASME team leader will only look at a generalized procedure, naming any hold points and inspection procedures:
you will have to have a QI (qualified individual to stay with the production)
That general procedure (within the QC Manual) can later be used in poduction of any batch of vessels,
probably a ONE DAY Production/finished vessels.

(for example: AI involvement in every 10 items to inspect one item and other steps that the Agency and AI like to put a hold or verification point),

you can post it in the steamforum.com and seek help.
er

 

[aclark]

You all have the wrong idea of what mutipule duplicate fabracation is. I am an ASME team leader that has performed many reviews under that provision of the codes. Both section IV and VIII contain the same basic wording.

In order to operate under UG-90(c)(2)or HG-515.4(b) would require an new joint review, the review would be conducted by an ASME designee as well as the local Jursdiction and the AIA. The inpection procedures that will be used to inspect Code items must be written in cooperation with the AIA and must be inplemented at the time of the review. The AI's main responsibility under this type of program is to monitor the Certificate holders inspection program. The program also requires that an A I be present at all times during fabrication i e full time.

If your AIA doesn't know about multiple duplicte fabrication I sujesst you get one that does.

 

[GenB]

aclark,
I respect your posting.
I assumed the request was for a new or renew of a certificate,
that's why I said "team leader",

I disagree with the requirement of the AI present full time,
Monitore full time " for me does not mean that the AI will be every minute of it,
I think that the Code is clear enoughn to understand its meaning,
I will also check with some other experts in the Code and advise.
Again, we are lucky to have you here in this forum,
Regards,
genb

 

[aclark]

GenB

All of the shops in question must have an AI present during the time that multiple duplicate fabrication is going on. If that is just 3 days per week then he is there for 3 days. The only execption to this is when there are different shifts at the plant. ASME did require an Inspector on all shifts but backed off from that about 12
years ago.

 

[GenB]

AClark,
Thanks, It is good to know the system
and who can argue with the Team Leader!

To Konrad: there are all your answers,
now all you need is the procedure and
an AI who can support your practice.
genb

 

[Konrad]

Thank you for clarifications! Looks like the HG-515.4(b) is not the way to go for me. I wanted to avoid presence of the AI during pressure testing, but I see that HG-515.4(b) needs him present even more!
There's only 2 AIAs here in Poland, both having 2 AIs, not enough to have somebody at any time available.

Konrad

PS. AClark, where is the information about AI's presence available? The Code does not say a word...

 

[GenB]

Konrad,
Who wants the AI presense anyways, you just want him/her to sign and get over with.
(I hope my AI is not reading this, he will definitly punish me),
About the "AI's presence available?", it is my understanding now that it is only an ASME policy and it may be a good one, otherwise we would just fabricate duplicates a lot w/o inspection cost and thus compromising safety.
Mr. Clark will clarify that for us.
genb

 

[Konrad]

GenB,
In my situation, the AI lives some 700km away from here and he always drives his car to get here. Roads are poor, so it takes 3/4 day to get here, spend the night, do the job in the morning, and 3/4 day to get back. Even if the job takes 15 mins
He is paid for 15 mins, but we pay the AIA for 2 days, so nobody likes it, except the AIA shareholders. Thus, the Inspector always laments, when we try to get him for inspection.
We are holding a UM stamp which help much with SecVIII-1, but there is no UM in SecIV :-( And our H-stuff is really tiny...

Any thoughts?
Konrad