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Needy customers 1

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MechEng2005

MechEng2005

Mechanical
Oct 5, 2007
387
Greetings,

I am a younger engineer, about 3 years experience. I have in the past year started managing my own projects for equipment design.

I am currently working with a customer on a machine that was installed. The customer is constantly wanting things "tweaked" to work just the way they want. Things like adjusting flow controls on hydraulic valves, etc. The customer is about 50 miles from where I am working. Each time that ANYONE at that company decides something should be tweaked I am called and asked to come and make the changes. Since they have not made the final payment yet, I am sent to make the changes. After deciding some "tweak" needs to be made they stop using the equipment and say that I need to be there ASAP because they are waiting on me.

It seems that even practicing and getting used to the controls is not done unless I am standing there watching.

I am getting tired of these trips and standing around. Anybody have any suggestions on how to deal with this situation? Do I need to take a firmer stance, or should I leave that up to the salesperson? The salesperson would have the ability to say that they will not receive a person on-site unless they pay an hourly fee, which is why I think maybe they should say something to the customer.

Thanks for letting me rant and any advice is appreciated!

-- MechEng2005
 
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What does the contract say?

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently?
 
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Sounds like this a new piece of equipment. There are probably some performance guarantees and if the customer isn't seeing what they thought they should see then they want it changed. Probably someone should be there full time until the customer is satisfied with their new equipment. As a customer I would expect that.

If it is repetitive visits for same little issues you could hold a brief training class and clear up any confusion.

With the current economic situation you should do everything you can to make sure you keep your "needy" customers. Needy>none
 
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Does your customer have a single point of contact to reach you, or is your phone number on everyone's speed dial? You should force the customer to choose ONE individual who will contact you when there are problems. Likewise, your company should have only one contact. After completing this step, your company contact should only respond to the appointed customer contact, even if someone else from customer's plant contacts you. Do not work with anyone else. That individual will get tired off being the intermediary and start discouraging the customer employees.
 
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First, feel flattered that the Customer wants you; you are now more valuable to your employer.

Second, contact your company's management (Sales Manager) and obtain his/her guidance, especially if the item currently meets performance and other Contract requirements. The added costs may be worth it to keep the Customer happy or NOT; in any event, management must decide.

 
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Whenever I think a customer is being "needy" I get their details up on my screen. I check the amount they are paying us and compare it with the amount of time we are giving them. It can really change ones perspective.

- Steve
 
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What I would do in this situation is sit down with the sales guy who put the initial proposal, quote whatever together and get the client on the phone and come up with a clear concise sign off checklist with the initial contract in mind and the customers needs. Make sure that the client uinderstands that you want them to be happy, but you need to get this project wrapped up. Get them to agree in writing that this will be the final sign off checklist and this checklist will be the contract completion and trigger the final payment and that anything above and beyond that list is an extra charge. Then go onsite and clear off the checklist in one visit and get them to sign off on it.
 
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Offer to teach their techs and engineers to do this, for about $20,000 over 3 days

Suggest that they need to start their maintenance contract.

Frankly, I'm surprised that your company is letting you do this for free to the customer.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
 
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Silly question, have you written the instructions for this machine so that they can operate it (if that was in the contract?)



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
 
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All sorts of possible causes here.

This could be a pre-amble to a contract dispute. Perhaps they are in financial difficulties and are trying to defer payment.

They may be asking you back every time not because they like and respect you but simply because you haven't said no or drawn a line in the sand.

Of course, it could also be that the guys who keep calling you in don't actually have the authority to do so since they don't have approval rights, i.e. it ain't their decision as to whether the machine is operating as expected or not. It may even be that these visits are chargeable (and probably you should require an order to go in even if it is later discounted or billed to some other part of your company; e.g. after sales work could be a sales and marketing overhead, don't assume that it is all one pocket the money comes from. There could be several different departments in their and your own company who could be billed.

You need to find out what the problem really is and that should start internally first and it starts with your manager. Explain you've been doing a lot of site visits and why.

It could even be, as Greg's question suggests, that they haven't read the manual.... always easier to dial a number than read the manual.

You might find the best way out is to provide a one day training session.


No joking, it doesn't matter how simple or complex the machine really is, the client will weigh the manual in his hand, briefly flick the pages and then decide he doesn't have time to wade through it all when its just as quick to make the phone call. I can't count the number of times this has happened to me.

I have found that some site training goes a long way. Something thing I try to do when I visit site is never do the work myself, no matter how much I'd like to and how much quicker it would be.
I supervise one of the client engineers (the one who is going to be responsible for it) doing it and work from the manual with him. This gets them involved, de-mystifies the manual (if nothing else) and the need for repeat visits falls dramatically.


JMW
 
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Me too. If I can answer a tech support question using a quote from our help system, I will always do so and make it clear that's what I'm doing.

- Steve
 
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The above ideas are well and good but fundamentally the first thing you need to do is look at the contract.

What have you agreed to provide?

If the contract states you need to give on site support as required for XXX weeks after delivery or similar then someone from your company, though not necessarily you, needs to do so.

If your contract states certain performance criteria, which these tweaks are needed to help reach, then your company may also be on the hook.

What does your manager have to say about this? I assume he has to agree to sending you on these trips?

We have a problem here of field tech support staff or sales directly contacting the engineers that designed something (asking for all kinds of things from just simple help to complete redesigns) without management even being cc on emails etc. While there are times it's appropriate to contact factory staff direct due to time constraints and customer service concerns management usually need to be in the loop and approve any significant effort etc.

Sounds like maybe your manager needs to have a conversation with the sales manager.

Training and/or (improved)manuals are great ideas but does the contract specify them?

If they aren't already part of the contract you could suggest providing a user manual & X hours training for a fee. You could suggest this fee be justified to the customer by the amount of time/money it would save on the tool not being down waiting for you to visit.

Also, something I've learned from my own experience, how much of this is because the tool has a slight design flaw or is tricky to set up/adjust? Maybe not much you can do about this now but you can bear it in mind for next time.

The customer may always be right but that doesn't mean they get everything for free or that their expectations don't need to be managed by the sales guy/field support.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at
 
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Thanks all for the advice.

A manual was provided with the equipment, and a day of training on the equipment was provided.

Part of the reason for additional trips to the customers seems to be more to supervise as they learn the equipment. For example, if you built a car for somebody, would you be expected to stay and train them until they are able to pass a driving test? Or does training just constitute ensuring they know how to operate the vehicle and the actual performance is up to them.

The contract was somewhat vague on measurable specifications, which makes this somewhat of a grey area (obviously a note to myself in the future to make sure to get measurable specs!). The equipment meets all functional requirements. The issue is more with "ease of use" type parameters. Obviously, we want to make the customer happy. However, I am having trouble convincing the customer that some (most) of the "ease of use" issues are that the equipment operators need to get used to the new machinery. Spend a little time using it and it should be fairly simple to operate.

The "ease of use" issues obviously overlap into the design of the equipment. However, I again will resort to the car example. If you were sold a car and it had the parking brake as a pedal (as with many automatic transmissions) and the customer thought it was hard to use. They would prefer the handbrake type. Obviously, this is something that was designed, and I would agree that the handbrake is easier to use. In this case, I might not be asked to change the equipment, but required to go to the customer, review their proposed change, and offer advice (for free of course).

I appreciate all the advice and it seems as though it is just an issue of where to draw the line. I take a lot of pride in my work and definately want the customer to be happy with the product, but I don't think I can force them to accept that it is good, but not perfect.

Thanks again everybody!
MechEng2005
 
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Thanks for the feedback.
I suggest that as it is after sales support you should bill your time to sales (even if they don't accept the bill) if only so they include a suitable allowance in other projects.

Next step (one that I have also adopted) is to identify key procedures and document them.
It is all very well to declare that the controls (software) is user friendly/intuitive/menu driven etc. but he reality is that if you use it every day you will become familiar with it but if you only need to occasionally do certain things it is as well to take a couple of tasks and document those specific tasks.
I do this using step by step instructions with screen shots; the more pictures and the least text the better.

I try to make it so they can laminate the pages and keep them handy.

JMW
 
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Have you talked to your manager about who's paying for your time, as others mention maybe it's as simple as making sales pay for it, they then have a motivation for 'weening' the customer. As long as you jumping through hoops doesn't cost sales anything they don't have much motivation to try and talk the customer out of it.

Maybe so as to meet them halfway for customer satisfaction cost a package of another days training and an update of the manual to address issues that have come up. Pass this to your boss and discuss that you think this should close out all actions and that any further work should be a new contract. Decide which department is going to pay for this. Get customer buy in.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at
 
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I still think there is something missing here. How much money is involved in this sale? Are you wrapping up a widget and kissing it goodbye? Or are you starting a partnership with a customer?

- Steve
 
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I have discussed where to bill my time with my manager. Some of it has been under sales, some has been buried under "miscellaneous" (which basically corresponds to the same as "idle time" or cleaning up my cube, etc).

At the moment, our workload is such that 1-2 days per week is not going to delay any other projects. I have a number of hours each week reviewing common/standard designs looking for improvements, running calculations on non-critical items (i.e. somebody used a 1/2" bolt because it looked right and we have done so for 20 years, but now I'm justifying it), etc.

As far as SomptingGuy's assessment of a customer partnership versus one-time sale... This customer could have use for more of our products in the future. I guess that's why I've been trying to look to sales for how much "coddling" I should do. However, it gets frustrating when their response seems to be "Infinite coddling!"

I will definately be more aware, document, and ask customer about user-friendly issues in the future.

Mostly, I think I'm just going to have to keep at it, while reviewing any requests, fieldtrips, modifications with the salesperson and my manager. I certainly value it as a learning experience in what issues to look for in design (specifically thinking about customer preferances and ease-of-use) and generally how to deal with customers. Just frustrating at the moment.

Thankfully, I have a good group of co-workers around,even if they don't always do what I want or see things the same way I do, they are understanding. That includes my manager and the salesperson too. And the customer is personally nice enough, even if I do think they are somewhat needy.

And this forum is certainly helpful and offers a nice mellow view, even when things at work are rough. Thanks again everybody!

-- MechEng2005
 
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" it gets frustrating when their response seems to be "Infinite coddling!""

So long as your boss is cool with that then you have your answer.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
 
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