New consultant building upon old consultant's work

[graybeach]

Hello everyone,
I work on the owner’s side. A couple years ago, we had a consultant prepare a design to rehabilitate the façade of a large 40 year old vent shaft building. The work was to consist of localized repairs and recaulking. When, due to budgetary concerns the work was pushed out two years, I had the consultant complete the design and seal the drawings, which I placed on the shelf until now. On a recent walk-through, I discovered that conditions at the building have worsened considerably, and much of the building envelope now needs complete replacement, or at least this option needs to be studied. The original consultant is a small company with no special expertise in the state-of-the-art of building facades; therefore, I would like to hire a different consultant at this point. Still, much of the work done by the original consultant could be used and built upon, i.e. the general plans and views of the building, and the repair details (all basically “replace-in-kind”) that are still valid.
Here’s my question: Can I take the original consultant’s drawings, remove the seals, and give them to a new consultant to use as a starting point? I would require the new consultant verify the previous work and make any changes he or she felt necessary. The result would be a new set of drawings, all sealed by the new consultant. Is this kosher?

 

[zdas04]

Do you have the CAD files? If so, you paid for them and can use them however you want. If all you have is the paper copies then the new consultant will have to start with a blank CAD file anyway.

The stamped paper copies are still valid for the conditions investigated at the time, but changing the CAD files would render the stamped paper copies obsolete.

David

 

[greenone]

What does your contract with the original consultant say about who owns the drawings? Have you talked to the original consultant? Perhaps in the intervening 2 years, they have done work that is relevant.
I owuld never remove the seals from someone else's drawings and present the work as my own.

 

[Ashereng]

The quick answer is yes, barring any contractual restrictions.

In my industry, this happens all the time. We get drawings and engineering calcs from other consultants as information/input into our scope of work.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[MintJulep]

If you own the drawings, just give them (or copies) to the new consultant. Do not remove or obscure the seal.

If the new consultant is any good, he will not trust the original consultant anyway, and will insist on reconfirming everything the original consultant did. If you don't want to pay again for work already done, expect a big fat caveat about "conditions as documented by the owner, not verifed by the engineer."

 

[DRC1]

You may want the original consultant to hire the new consultant. Thus you have continuity on the project and the consultants can share information in a manner that is mutually agrreable. the old consultant can bring the new consultant up to speed much faster, than the new consultant could on his own.

 

[davidbeach]

What DRC1 said, the only right thing to do is to go back to the original consultant and discuss the situation with them or to ditch the drawings and start over. The original consultant may have acquired additional expertise in the intervening two years, they may have a relationship with someone who does have the necessary expertise, or they may say "sorry, we can't help you with that". I think that the right thing is to offer them the opportunity.

 

[GregLocock]

That's a bit odd. If I pay a professional dentist to fix my teeth, I don't expect the next dentist to say, "Oh, I'll have to rip all that out and start again."

The drawings (etc) should be enough to use as a basis for further work.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[graybeach]

Thank you for the replies. The differences of opinion are exactly what I'm struggling with. The original consultant has a long working relationship with my agency and usually does good work so I do not want to alienate them. On the other hand they were over their head with the original design.
The situation with the building is becoming critical with hazardous materials, dissimilar metals and historical preservation thrown into the mix. I really need help from an expert. We own the drawings and have the CAD files, but I am seeing the need to be up front and respectful with the original consultant.

 

[KENAT]

You say you 'own the drawings' and usefully have the actual CAD files. So what's the big deal? The contractor did work for you, presumably you were happy with the work at the time and paid them. You then want to come back and re-visit it. Whether you work on the drawings or whether you pay a different contractor to work on them makes no difference, you own them.

I've always worked in exempt industry so don't have direct experience of the stamp thing but given the magnitude of changes you expect I'd think the stamps should be taken off and the new persons stamp put on when they're finished incorporating the changes.

If out of good will (or whatever you call it) you let the original consultant know you've hired a specialist to take a second look that's more about business relationships than ethics as such.

Likewise if there was some kind of information the original consultant gathered that isnt' in the drawing pack and you think some kind of 'handover' would be beneficial this is a program issue, not in my opinion an ethical one.

 

[SylvestreW]

"Thank you for the replies. The differences of opinion are exactly what I'm struggling with. The original consultant has a long working relationship with my agency and usually does good work so I do not want to alienate them. On the other hand they were over their head with the original design. "

If this is the case, what's wrong with sitting down with them and explaining? Heck, they might simply say the scope is beyond them and provide you with better guidance etc.

To be honest, I think you are making something out of nothing here. Just talk to all parties.

 

[graybeach]

Thank you SylvestreW - I hear you. The role of overseeing consultants is new to me and not easy. I am much more used to being the design consultant. Now there is talk around here of deferring the project for another year. This brings up other questions and issues for another post.