New EPC petroleum job - Advice appreciated 1

[Rotomasta]

Greetings all.

I have recently started a new job which happens to also be my first job. I studied Aerospace Engineering and yet here I am in the petroleum industry. To make a long story short, due to a variety of obstacles I was unable to find a job in my actual field of aerospace, and since it has been a while since graduation, I had to start working no matter what the field.

As it turns out, even though I am in the petroleum industry now, the job is pretty close to the subjects I studied, as I deal with mechanical equipment such as pumps, compressors, turbines etc which is what I studied in school after all, just as applied to aircraft and space propulsion rather than oil production facilities.

Anyways, I try to make the best of out of things and I am happy with where I am for now. However, this being the first job and also being somewhat different than one I expected, I am seeking advice and knowledge from more experience folk in this industry.

First of all, working in my current position, as I understand it, I am to basically "know about" such things as compressors, pumps and turbine and what not, and fully understand and be able to check the work of vendors of such equipment such as GE, but I am not actually involved in the design of the equipment. It feels a lot more of a managerial position than an engineering position. Having come from 6 years of number crunching, equation-solving, code-writing hell (school), simply "requesting" a compressor or pump rather than designing it myself seems a bit strange. It feels like I am only like half of an engineer. Seems like the job involves more work with actual documentation and meetings and "checking" and "rechecking" than actual engineering.

But I am new to it all so I dont really know the full extent of what the job will entail. Also, the company is now in a period of one project ending and looking to aquire new contracts, so it's a bit of a downtime, giving me a lot more freedom with what I do and a lot of time to wonder about what the job will entail.

Anyways, my questions for anyone with experience in this field.

a)How much actual engineering does the job of an engineer in an EPC company involve compared to say the engineers working to design and build the equipment at the vendor. I mean, when I think engineering from a school-perspective I think FORTRAN, MATLAB, CFD, CAD and Differential equations. But I saw the list of software we use, and I think the closest thing to any of these was a weird CAD package I had never heard of.

b)As I said not much going on right now between projects, what would be your advice on how I should spend my time. My list right now includes the study and understanding/familiarization with standards such as API and ISO and ASME, PIDs, PFDs, Equipment Data Sheets, Equipment Specifications, and work instructions regarding such things as the tender stage, FEED and project execution/detail engineering. Of course, since I am pretty clueless in general regarding the oil industry, I am also reading books and spend time on Wikipedia a lot.

But as you might notice, that is a LOT of reading and a LOT to learn/become familiar with in a small period of time. So I would appreciate some advice on what things to focus and in what order based on your own experiences.

Also, it has been a while since I last looked at a Compresssor Map...should I be digging into tech stuff a lot?

Thanx in advance,

Rotomasta

 

[BigInch]

Most classic EPCs don't really do much if any innovation of new products, so product design work as you describe doesn't form much of the work at all. "EPC" pretty much states 1/2 the case, 33% Engineering, 33% Procurement and 33% Construction. The other "half" is 100% documentation in one form or another, from permit applications, to equipment specs, dwgs, approving equipment proposed by vendors and approval and collation of vendor documentation.

I'll discuss the "E" bit, since that's your perspective for the time being,

The EPC approximation to product design, aside to the occasional special studies for deep water platforms in Arctic environments, etc. for some speciality EPC company, would be more like system design, where a process that has been initially adapted to fit within all constraints is verified, usually by simulation.. these days, ... whether that be by HYSIS process analysis, STRAN structural analysis, CAESARII pipe stress analysis, and a host of others.

In EPCs, the "Engineering" is mostly found in matching commercially available equipment as closely as possible to the process needed and making sure "it fits within the available space, delivery time and capital budget, whether that be pipe, instruments, vessels, machinery or control software and connecting it all up to work as a cohesive whole. Since the projects are usually highly complex, a lot of their expertise is devoted to coordination, managing all the permits, parts lists, materials specs, testing certificates, vendor data tracking, scheduling and logistics of the same, plus managing all the subcontracts it takes to put one of them together.

There are some disiciplines that "do more" in relation to actual design, simply because their finished deliverables are made from more basic components, such as concrete and steel structural shapes, pipe, wires and cables, but even most of that involves determining required size and strength and/or capacity and then selecting and specifying what you need from the standard WFs, pipe and cable sizes.

So, a great portion of the "engineering work" is actual production and verification of the design specs, dwgs & docs, so much effort is expended towards supervision of that process in regard to personnel, manhour budgeting and progress reporting, checking & quality control, scheduling and cost and the closest you are likely to get to design, is verification, by your own calclations, that some vendor proposed piece of equipment will actually do the job you want it to do. Sad, in a way, but for the most part, all too true.

"Pumping systems account for nearly 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25% to 50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities." - DOE statistic
I'll add, "Make that 99.999% for pipeline companies" - Virtual Pipeline

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[tygerdawg]

You describe what I think is one of the failures of engineering education: all that coursework teaches you analytical thinking and problem solving, but not what industrial work content actually is, nor how to do it. I certainly was anxious to punch the calculator buttons when I graduated to my first job, and was terribly disapppointed when I discovered most work content was mundane tasks.

I would propose that a very high percentage of actual work content in "the real world" is just as you describe. It's not analytical design and number crunching, but a lower level of applied analysis to everyday problems.

The basic design analysis and innovative number crunching does occur, but it's not the norm. It's already been done, why re-invent the wheel? Most of actual work is more or less formulaic and cook-book. Getting into that high-end kind of work is generally a longer-term process of on the job experience and seasoning, and informal apprenticeships inside companies. But when you actually DO get to do some heavy math and problem solving, it is sweet.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[TPL]

but I am not actually involved in the design of the equipment
Thats because the OEM does that sort of thing - your role could be to ensure that the correct item is specified in the first place and that it will do the job required. You can get involved in factory acceptance testing and commissioning - both activities provide plenty of opportunity to identify and solve problems.


Of course, since I am pretty clueless in general regarding the oil industry
Get yourself onto site and familiarise yourself with what it does and how it works. Talk to the people there, understand their machinery problems and use your educational advantage to help solve those problems

Having come from 6 years of number crunching, equation-solving, code-writing hell (school), simply "requesting" a compressor or pump rather than designing it myself seems a bit strange
If you are any good, I would have thought that any pump or compressor OEM would be delighted to offer you a job

 

[nickelkid]

"It feels a lot more of a managerial position than an engineering position."

In an EPC as a Rotating Equipment Engineer you will need to get used to it. I spent 4 years at an EPC in the Mechanical/Rotating Equipment group and felt that way often while doing bid tabs, generating specifications, correcting data sheets, and supporting Procurement. On the other hand this position will (should) have a great deal of interaction with other disciplines like piping, vessels, instrumentation, etc... Take advantage of it, you may find that the majority of design challenges in your EPC are in another group and you may want to transition to one of them.

NB if you are considering OEM employment do it while you are young and can afford to.

 

[Rotomasta]

Thanx for the helpful responses.

BigInch,

thanx for the insight. Indeed it confirms my understanding of EPC engineering duties. 33% indeed. But I have a feeling I will end up liking mixing this managerial and supervision work with engineering. I think it'll spice things up nicely and also allow for the development of managerial and leadership skills.

Tygerdawg,

Based on what all that I heard, I expected that work would be nothing like school. Most of my friends ended up telling me that work is like a walk in the park compared to school workload. Another of my friend told me he has not touched an equation since graduating like a couple years ago and he works in the rocket propulsion industry! I also heard that " school-like" number-crunching and design work, especially on dreamy state-of-the-art next gen technologies was a privilage of the few.

But the very nature of EPC companies is that their "design" is the process/system while the components are purchased and designed by others. So I guess if you happen to be a Process Engineer, then you get to "design" and crunch numbers heavily as you are "designing" the system, even though a lot of systems might already exist and be available through licensors, so then even a process engineer just connects the dots and supervises/chekcs the work of others and doesnt really do any real design themselves.

RCHandy,

yeah I realize there will be a lot of interaction and communication in this position. Heck, I believe its ALL about interaction and communication. Communication with the client, with the Project Team, with the suppliers. And I think that's what I like about it, it'll be challenging and spice up things by having to interact with various disciplines and parties and not just stare at some code all day long in some basement cubicle.

As for OEM, why while young and while I can afford to?

Rotomasta

 

[nickelkid]

"As for OEM, why while young and while I can afford to?"

An EPC will typically pay better than OEM.

 

[BigInch]

Roto, I like a mix of design and coordination work. Some design work helps keep the pencil sharp, but too much and you start learning more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing, so it can get boring. The coordination side should get you out of the office and nosing around, so a little of both is not a bad compromise.

And you are dead on about the communication aspects being the most important part of building complex systems such as a large chemical plant, etc. For which I don't even like office e-mail, or telephones either. Nothing better than getting out and seeing what's really going on and talking about it face to face. But, then again, you haven't lived until you try to do that in a company with 25,000 people from 74 different countries. Major headache. Makes you think about going back to just reading pump curves.

**********************
"Pumping systems account for nearly 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25% to 50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities." - DOE statistic
"Note: Make that 99.99% for pipeline companies" -

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Rotomasta]

That's true BigInch.

Since things are a bit slow right now as some projects are ending and others are about to start, and since I dont really have a direct mentor and little instruction, I am relying a lot on self-initiative to get ready for the time when we have to make an offer.

I was wondering what you guys suggest I should focus on most as a equipment engineer.

On my list right now are:

Specifications, PFDs, P&IDs, Equipment Data Sheets, company work instructions/procedures, oil-industry and process equipment books, roto machinery books, API standards, and believe it or not...wikipedia

Of course, if actually read/studied all that it'd take me like 3 years lol. So I'm finding myself having to guess exactly what is more important for a new equipment engineer to know and what is less important.

My guess is I gotta prepare to do the things I will have to do for the proposals. So basically make sure I can read P&IDs, PFD, Data Sheets and have an idea of how Specifications are written and also proposal/bidding work instructions.

But I'd like to hear your advice.

 

[Bribyk]

After going through a similar situation myself recently (and, more or less, currently), I'd say to focus on what's really important. Sometimes the most basic calculation, such as Carnot's Theorem or rough IRR calc can keep you from making a bad call. For example, I had spec'd a regulator out for a project to try to reduce compressed air consumption as it's a rather expensive (and, for my application, limited) energy source. Once I actually looked at the finances rather than Cv charts and pressure drops I realized that it would take more than a century for the the regulator to actually save us money. I think sometimes it's too easy to just jump into the calculations, especially when it's a new area/field, and you have to keep the big picture in mind. Big picture insights will put you in a more favorable light with the boss/clients than a 25 page flow analysis that accounts for the Coriolis Effect ever will.

 

[BigInch]

Exactly. Many times the answer isn't even in the "Calculations". An earlier delivery time will make you more money than sizing within +/- 10% of BEP, or that perhaps standardizing on one pump to be used at three separate installations, each with some differing characteristics, may give you just enough training, spare parts and maintenance savings to make it worthwhile.



**********************
"Pumping systems account for nearly 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25% to 50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities." - DOE statistic
"Note: Make that 99.99% for pipeline companies" -

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[nickelkid]

Rotomasta,

Keep up with trade publications like Hydrocarbon Processing, Pumps & Systems, etc... Inquiring for vendor information can also lead to meeting valuable contacts with industry insight, in addition to increasing product knowledge. Of course, reference all of your standards, specifications, and books concurrently.

 

[zdas04]

Actually you can do as much "real" engineering as you are big enough to do. I spent a lot of years in a job that the job description could be boiled down to "project management" and during that time I was able to develop and implement dozens of significant departures from "business as usual".

My approach was to get to the field. Talk to the folks operating the stuff and see how they spend their time and what keeps them from meeting their production goals. Then go back and pick one or two of the big issues that no one is looking at and figure out a way to make them better.

It is really up to you. If you are content to do a job that could probably be done better by an MBA (and it sounds like you aren't) then you can have a good career doing that. If you want to use more of that hard-won education then go out and find the stuff that needs fixing and fix it.

David

 

[StressGuy]

All of the advice you've gotten is good. I would also advise that, in addition to learning about the various standards that we use, take some time to sharpen your "people skills". Things like "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" and How to "Win Friends and Influence People" will help in interacting. Engineers who are "just" good an crunching numbers, but can't discuss things with other design disciplines without either confusing them, or getting into a fight tend to get relegated to limited roles.

Also, one thing that I don't think university emphasizes enough to students - all those fancy programs, equations, tables and charts don't provide answers or solutions to problems - they provide data. The real engineering comes from taking all that data, like a pump curve, or a viscosity of a fluid to pump, or a hydraulic analysis, and putting the pieces altogether into a practical and cost effective recommendation for the client. A lot of people get lost in "running the program" and lose sight of what the real question is that needs to be answered. Don't fall into that trap.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[Rotomasta]

Thanx for all the greaat advice all.

My main concern right now is to prepare myself for my first project as well as make sure my colleagues and superiors get the impression that I am a great asset to their team and that I am very resourceful.

In order to do that, I feel when the time comes to work on a proposal for a new project and to start participating in kick off meetings and talking to people on the phone/email to again, demonstrate that I know what I am doing and I am doing it well.

Right now I feel that basically means getting to know rotating equipment really well such as types of compressors and pumps, what are their advantages and disadvantages and characteristics, which are best for which applications, as well as with technical matters, especially the things that I will see on API Data Sheets and P&IDs/PFDs.

Cause you can have all the people's skills and know all the company procedures, but if you dont know what a backpressure turbine is or what cavitation is and how to avoid it, then it wont matter.

All that I am thinking is just how much school doesnt teach you

Being new to a job is really, like continuing your education, only this time you are your own teacher for 95% of the time.

 

[JLSeagull]

http://www.lockheedmartinjobs.com/events_L16sandiego.asp