New Grad-Hold Out for Higher Paying Job? 11

[RogerThat104]

I graduated in December 2014 with a BSCE. For the last year, I interned at a very large firm with a highly respected team of Geotechnical/Structural engineers. My resume is rock solid. Before graduating I did not expect that extensive travel (75%) would be required of an entry level Geotech for larger firms. To put it nicely “that’s not gonna fly” with my wife, so transitioning to full time with said firm is not an option. In my job search it seems that the only positions I’m getting called back for are Construction Materials Tech, which are extremely low paying. So low that it makes me depressed to even think about it. I can make more at Dairy Queen. The opportunity to advance to a salaried Geotech with theses companies is possible. Some say 6 months, others a year or more. My questions are this: Should I hold out and spend my days trying to find a salaried position or bite the bullet and go to work at a ridiculously low wage in the hopes that I can keep my head down and work my way up the chain? And, is this normal for entry level Civil Engineers to have to accept a job that requires only a high school education and no experience to get their foot in the door? Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Maui]

The newly minted engineers may be expected to travel more because in general they usually can. They typically don't have a family yet. But you do. If the company that you interned for has a genuine need for you, I'd suggest explaining your circumstances to them regarding the travel requirement. Explain that you are married and plan on starting a family soon. If they can reduce their travel requirements to somewhere between 25% - 50%, would your spouse find that acceptable? Would you?

Maui

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[RogerThat104]

Maui- Reducing the travel would not be an option. This firms works all over the U.S./World and its just the nature of the beast for entry level engineers at large Geotech firms. They require "boots on the ground". The regional/local firms are the only ones that wont require extensive travel. Thanks for your reply.

 

[TheTick]

The end of school is just the start of education. At your career stage ("stage zero"), you should be more concerned about training and experience. Hard to make mo money w/o mo skillz.

 

[graybeach]

Maybe you should try to work for a state or city government entity or a power utility. With these, you will still travel but in a more limited area. There is no way around geotechs needing to travel so they can observe borings, footing bottoms, pile driving, etc.

 

[moon161]

It's a game w/ significant unknowns & uncertainty, isn't it? You'll have a lot more options after a year in the current position. IME, travel is a real learning experience. Your increased value will give you room to negotiate w/ current employer or find a new one after a year.

Explore a few 'year in scenarios w/ the wife', and what it'll be like to get there:
1)1 year in w/ 75% travel, known wage.
2)3-6 mo as grunt, then local engineering job.
3)12 mo as grunt, no engineering job.

Explore the various tangibles and intangibles of each 1 year position and path.
If it'll help, plan 3-4 trips & vacations throughout year 1 and save as you go w/ option 1. Leave your cell at home during each vacation.

 

[ctopher]

I graduated in December 2014 with a BSCE

Then you should already know your answer.

Chris, CSWA
SolidWorks 13
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[Latexman]

Take the job, buy/rent an RV, and take the little lady with you. Then you'll be positioned for the next promotion - Project Manager!

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[oldestguy]

It would appear you did not spend much time before going to college exploring as to what the civil engineering field entails for work locations. Having not done that, at least you should have seen more of the C.E. field as you took courses. Also it appears you are not aware of the current economy and that construction (a civil engineering backbone field) is not doing well. So go ahead and stand your ground and wait for the perfect job to come along. I trust mom and pop will still take you in. The longer you hold out, the fewer any opportunities will show up and the poorer and poorer will your prospective employers think of your usefulness to them. Also do some searching here of threads where early mistakes have ruined the chances for otherwise possible great careers. If great money is your prime criteria, you are in the wrong field to begin with for starting wages. Many of the members of this forum are in positron to hire engineers. I'd bet plenty that the none will show sympathy after seeing your initial post.

 

[ScottyUK]

I'm from a different discipline and on a different continent but I see some similarities with my own position in those early years after graduation.

I graduated in the recession of the late 80's / early 90's where most of our remaining manufacturing base was systematically destroyed and our utilities were broken up and sold off during Thatcher's anti-union crusade. It was a bad time for a new power engineering grad to be looking for his first job, in a market flooded with experienced people desperate for work and the start of a two-decade-long recruitment freeze among the former utilities. I worked in a bar right through college / university and my first full-time job didn't match what I was making behind the bar. My friends paid my way on a few occasions where I simply had nothing left in my pockets. I doubled my salary when I left that job and was barely on an average wage in the new place. My next move took me to London - a city I could happily never see again - and a payraise which was wiped out three-fold by the cost living there. The experience I gained in those three jobs laid the road into the power industry on my fourth move after graduation, opening doors which were firmly closed to a new grad. Things for me have been a little more settled since then, and I have been far happier too, plus the salary shortfall early on has been made up by more recent years.

I guess the message is that the first few years probably won't be what you want, or be where you want it, and there won't be much you can do except take whatever work is out there in whatever crappy location it is offered. The positions you take and the moves you make early in your career will sow the seed for the future. Graduating into a recession makes the ride a little bumpier but you - and your wife - need to recognise that the first few years will likely be rough on you and your finances. You need to get experience under your belt to be able to compete in the market for the more senior jobs with more interesting work and better money when the market starts to pick up.

 

[RogerThat104]

I can now tell that taking a lesser paying tech job and busting my hump is the way to go. I will keep my head down and grind it out and hopefully see you guys on the other side! I appreciate all the advice and thanks again!

 

[oldestguy]

One more from the OG. It's OK to sass back folks here, but keep those to yourself on the job. As supervisor of many a young engineer, I also note that making decisions out on the job can get you and the company in trouble if they are not backed up by experience. A couple of these newer engineers did not check with higher ups before making important job decisions and we all regretted those situations. One lost his job because of that "know-it-all" attitude early in his first job. It's OK to have confidence in what you can do, but don't over do it. Maybe I was hard to work for, but I was the boss and what was done under me was my responsibility.

 

[11t]

I tend to never be surprised by people's "technical and mechanical abilities" but I tend to be unpleasantly surprised by what people think they can do.

The first job I took out of college backfired in my face like holding a shotgun with one hand, got a terrible reference, but I just kept at it and moved on. The job you have now isn't your destiny, it is just your present. If you can't travel 75% of the time then don't take the job, just keep looking.

There are two types of dangerous levels of knowledge:

1. People who don't know enough to be worried
2. People who know just enough that they aren't but they don't know enough to understand the full scope of what they don't know.

Everybody else between (those between 1 and 2, and those above) tend to lack hubris. I never trust anybody who thinks they are an expert.

 

[IRstuff]

I think there are those that can legitimately consider themselves, "experts," kind of like the line from Mythbusters, "We're what you call experts."

Unfortunately, it often takes very little to become "what you call experts" I think what you are actually referring to are those that try to look like experts; as with martial artists, the true master does not need to prove himself to anyone, he simply is.

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

 

[ScottyUK]

The greater risk is that you become perceived as an expert by others - management in particular - when in reality you simply know a little more than your peers. I'm frequently in the category of knowing a little more than the guys I work with, but in turn I know guys who have forgotten more than I know about the things that I'm supposedly 'expert' in.

 

[oldestguy]

OG comments again. Grew up a lower middle class kid. First job was as riveter in WWII aircraft plant. Next as tailer to a noisy planer of table tops. List goes on. Somehow none of these grunt jobs were considered beneath my qualifications. In college I was a table waiter, also an eng. tech digging test pits or helper on drill rig. Then also these were jobs I liked and was glad to be paid. Even first graduate engineering job involved grunt septic tank field soil testing, considered part of the job with low pay. Of course things changed, now here seeing new grads with ambitions but not willing to start at the bottom, just does not fit with what I consider part of getting to know the work so that later that experience becomes valuable. It seems others here also started at or below the bottom, and now value that experience. No one has complained that he should have been paid more. Hopefully all comments will help to "modify" some attitudes.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

OG,

I certainly see where you're coming from, but I also think there has to be a reasonable assessment of the definition of "grunt work". It makes me a better sparky to see how my designs are assembled by the line techs, to hear how customers view my designs after using them for a year, etc. It does NOT make me a better sparky to make doughnuts early in the morning, stock shelves at the local toy store, etc. (all of which I have done for a paycheck). If you're thinking in terms of the former, we agree... if you include the latter, well, I think you're being an OG/curmudgeon

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[oldestguy]

Mac:

Look at it two ways. If it does not deal with your later-in-life work, even stocking shelves may develop a useful work attitude even if the experience does not. You like it or you may not. That positive work attitude I think is valuable no matter what the future work. Grumbling over low pay doesn't help. That appears to be the main gripe of Roger in addition to the job level being below his perceived qualifications.

 

[NorthCivil]

Rogerthat104. As a fresh graduate, I wouldn't say your resume is "rock solid". I think it would be more appropriate to call it "empty". An internship, while a nice talking point, isn't exactly giving your resume so much weight its going to crush HR's desk.

Field experience is going to be much better for your skill development, and consequently, your career development. I've known more than a couple guys leave young wives at home for months at a time as they prospected the Andes. In the end, they went on to prosperous careers, where they got to stay at home eventually. Never really kept in touch with the guys who took jobs that suited the cozy life... I'm guessing they didn't stay around.

 

[kylesito]

What sort of firms are you applying to? 90% of the firms I am familiar with, even multi-national companies, operate in local/regional offices. So the "travel" is limited to day trips or overnight. Especially land development/geotechnical/civil firms. Make sure their definition of "travel" is actually one you aren't comfortable with.

Also, stating that a position requires travel is sort of a "references provided upon request". It's standard. I've never applied to a job that didn't say it in the job description but I've never spent more than 2 nights on any business trip and never more than 2-3 times per year. Most of the work is all local. Look at the project resume of the companies...if the projects are mostly local there is very little chance you will be gone for weeks on the road. Sometimes, managers have a 'wish list' of projects that would expand their business outside the region. But the reality is that this always remains a dream for many.

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi