New Guy Interested in MS/NAS Fasteners

[TKComponet_Jack]

Hi guys,

We are a fastener factory used for automotive parts. From time to time, some partners ask if we can produce NAS or MS parts.
Our machines and facilities are fair enough for Self-locking nuts, Bolts, and Rivets.
The question is, how is our products to be MS part, shall we label the MS part number if we follow the MS/NAS standard?
and how we could promote or apply our products for MS or NAS approval?

and why the MS/ NAS fasteners are much higher prices than the commercial standard fasteners? ( the raw materials, for our understanding, the cost more or less the same)
Just because of the low volume/q.ty, frequency demands?

AS9100 should be the 1st step?

Thanks for all your Generous help

 

[rb1957]

1) if you want to do the job properly, open a spec and drill down to see all the specifications you need to comply with. Some ISO9xxx would be good to have (it says you have written processes for the things you do, and you follow them, and you audit yourself).

2) Or do what some people do ... say you're compliant and hope no one (particularly not a "Mayday" episode) calls your bluff.

 

[3DDave]

There are two hurdles. One is strict traceability of the materials and processes via record keeping. The other is to get on the QPL, Qualified Product List, for the items.

See https://www.dla.mil/Working-With-DL...ied-manufacturers-listqualified-product-list/

Making compliant parts and being able to sell those parts are separate stages.

As rb1957 has indicated, it's not a big deal to make some stuff and put it on Amazon or eBay, but it won't (shouldn't??) get into an aircraft or military vehicle if it's not on a QPL. Usually, to get by this requires committing fraud.

 

[Sparweb]

You can look at the MS standards sheets yourself by downloading them from either Everyspec or Assist: https://quicksearch.dla.mil/qsSearch.aspx
Try a search on "MS21042" for an "easy" introduction to self-locking nuts, since you mentioned them. There are 100,000 more so fill your boots.

Actually, it's superseded by "NASM21042" but you're just in the exploration phase: the older spec will tell you 99.9% of what the later one says (it's more of a hand-off to new custodians, rather than a rewrite of the standard AFAIK).

 

[SWComposites]

You need an aerospace grade QA system.
Then get AS9100 / ISO9000 approved.
And you will need to test fasteners to prove you meet the specs, initially and ongoing sampling.
And you need to buy raw materials from approved sources, and have full traceability of the materials.
You should hire someone who has worked at an aerospace fastener company.
And you will need to get on approved supplier lists at each OEM.

In aerospace we design to tight margins. We simply can’t afford to have fastener problems and poor quality. It has happened in the past and its been a giant cluster ****.

 

[TKComponet_Jack]

You need an aerospace grade QA system.
Then get AS9100 / ISO9000 approved.
And you will need to test fasteners to prove you meet the specs, initially and ongoing sampling.
And you need to buy raw materials from approved sources, and have full traceability of the materials.
You should hire someone who has worked at an aerospace fastener company.
And you will need to get on approved supplier lists at each OEM.

In aerospace we design to tight margins. We simply can’t afford to have fastener problems and poor quality. It has happened in the past and its been a giant cluster ****.

Where or how should I apply or approve our products to meet the specs? Please include Europe as well as the US markets.
Raw materials from approved sources and full traceability of the materials. It's No issue.

Where should I put the supplier listed at each OEM?

 

[SWComposites]

at for instance Boeing or Airbus, you will likely need to first discuss with the M&P engineering group that deals with fasteners. they should know where their internal approved supplier list is. or go thru the Supply Chain orgs at those companies that can pass it along to the engineering group.

 

[WKTaylor]

This is a 'complex' question wrapped-up in a KIS presentation. 'Lots to know... before You go.' Making aerospace grade fasteners is a commitment.

Exactly what 'high quality' grade fasteners are you currently making... dimensional controls, alloys, metallurgy, finishes, testing, fab methods, markings, etc.

Start with the basics... no particular order...

NFDA

FTI Webinar: Aerospace Fasteners

nfda.memberclicks.net

IFI Day 1 In Person Training – Basic Aerospace Fasteners

Day 1 In Person Training - Basic Aerospace Fasteners - Industrial Fasteners Institute

When: April 22, 2025 Time: 9:00 AM - 4:00 PM Where: Courtyard Marriott, 8 Mac Arthur Place, Santa Ana, CA 92707 Instructor(s): Laurence Claus Pricing: Early bird pricing is available until Tuesday, April 8, 2025. The cost is $498 per day. Prices will increase to $550 / day on April 9...

indfast.org

Fastener Training Institute

Fastener Training Institute | Basics of Aerospace Fasteners

Aircraft Locknut Manufacturers Association www.almanet.org/

Fastener Fair USA | Fastener Fair USA 2025 https://www.fastenerfairusa.com/en-us.html#/

 

[mfgenggear]

OP
Start by contracting QE engineer. He or she
Will lead the expensive certification process.
Hold on to your shorts.

 

[TKComponet_Jack]

OP
Start by contracting QE engineer. He or she
Will lead the expensive certification process.
Hold on to your shorts.

I have checked some domestic guys. For AS9100D, it won't cost too much.

 

[mfgenggear]

I have checked some domestic guys. For AS9100D, it won't cost too much.

Well I am restate my comment. While I am not a
QE engineer I do have experience. I belive it depends on the level of quality and manufacturing systems and procedures
for the application. What degree of quality and records retention. Certification of the personnel and processes.
What type processes are involved.
For example NDT, Matlab, specialty of the product. As Industrial hardware may not require
The same quality systems as space or aircraft where there are documentation records retention for 5-10 years, it gets very expensive. What standard civilian doesn't under stand why
Hardware for aircraft cost so much.
Part of my career I was engineering estimate
For Aerospace shop rate 10 times higher than
Or could be than low grade hardware.
As we have had discussing some manufacturers
Manufacturing gear boxes don't have give a certification for some industrial applications.
Where a gear box for high torque and rpm
Has to be safely guaranteed so many cycles and
Reliable it all makes difference.
Records retention to be reviewed if there is or was an issue.