New job or stay? 1

[stanleyleecm]

A little background with my current employer, I have been with this company for about 3 years and I started out with my EIT and recently got my Civil PE six months ago. And despite the fact that all of our insurances, vacation day, sick days were cut/eliminated a year ago my boss did gave me a 10% raise after I got my PE which I was very thankful for in this economy. Also we've been on 32 hours work week and get paid on a hourly basis for over a year now.

Fast forward to six months ago, I interviewed with a mid size company (about 500 people) and although they really liked me at that time, they were unable to bring me on board due to their anticipated workload and couple of their big projects were on hold.

Recently, I heard back from that company and they offered me a position simply because some of their big projects were signed off and also awarded for couple military housing projects. I will be contracted through a recruiting company for the first six months and after that, I will be hired directly by them depending on my performance and their future workload.

My biggest fear of switching to this new job is what if they do not have the workload after six months? They told me that they are positive about their future work and they wouldn't have offer me the job if they do not have the workload there. Other thing I am skeptical about is that I will be employed by a recruiting company for the first 6 months, anyone have any experience with how the recruiting process work and your thoughts on it?

But good thing is that I will be back to normal working hours and get paid 40 hours a week with all of my insurance, vacation, and sick days back. (Insurance do not come cheap anymore)

I will greatly appreciate if you could share your thoughts/tips. Am I be too risky to do this in this economy.

Thanks!

 

[Xera]

Did they or will they give it to you in writing?

 

[jmw]

I would have the same suspicion you have, that they need you for the current projects but after that, if there are not enough new projects, you are out again.
They seem to want you at a standard hire rate, but with no promises, but want to treat you as a contractor, possibly without the corresponding rates?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Especially if you'll be on as a contract employee for the first 6 months... when the work dries up, the call the contractor and say "We're done with him." If it ain't in writing, it's worth nothing.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[CRG]

Stanley,

Are you financially secure where you can live off of your savings/investments for a few years? If not, then work on putting together a nest egg where it will become much easier for you to make decisions like the one you are asking others to help you with.

 

[brandonbw]

I did this at my second job. I never had seen so much turnaround before. Someone came onto my team from Florida and was let go about 2 weeks in after he basically said he knew how to do everything and couldn't design a driveway. At the time I was working directly under the project manager for one of the 3 partners. I was constantly worried during my 6 months. But was told don't worry about it. Anyone worth something did make it through the 6 months. There weren't many though. I want to say there were over 60 people in and out within a year period at a company that maxed out around 75 at the peak.

Also I later found out that one of the people hired was able to get the 6 months reduced to 3 months. So you might want to try asking if they would do 3 months on contract either now or if after a month they can give you a review. It's definitely scary through the first 6 months. And you go through the recruiter's insurance, 401k, etc. No sick time or vacation builds up during this period either. I am the risky type so I would go for it.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil and Structural Engineering

http://bwengr.com

 

[rowingengineer]

I would go for making the 3 months 0. No need to sell youself on a stress wave for the fun of it.

How could you do anything so vicious? It was easy my dear, don't forget I spent two years as a building contractor. - Priscilla Presley & Ricardo Montalban

 

[jmw]

I will be hired directly by them depending on my performance and their future workload.

And after the six months?

They are asking you to give up a secure (yeah yeah) job to take a chance you'll have a good position after the six months.
In other words, they want you to take a risk.

Now to be fair, no one guarantees long term job security so you could look at it as them being up-front and honest. (Somehow I have learned to be at my most suspicious when something like this happens: if it looks too good to be true, it is too good to be true. The more open and honest they appear the more I want to know where is the catch? What are they hiding? I know, sad, isn't it. There may really be some genuine open and honest employers out there. But it doesn't hurt to have a well developed BS sniffer, you can always decide to take a chance.)

What you can do is be upfront with them and express your concern about this risk and ask what there is that makes that risk worthwhile.
This is a one way street so far.

So what can they do to make the risk worth while?

One thing is to assume the six month period is going to carry a significant salary premium. Does it?
If they also say that once they pick-up your contract for permanent hire the salary is back down to a reasonable level, then they expect that higher salary to be your reward for the risk.
I assume you have clear the terms and conditions for both the six month and the permanent hire? Since they link these together, you need to link them together in a single contract. You might try and get the terms defined under which your performance is satisfactory and the level of new business.

But then you have to worry if the salary they want to offer on permanent hire is too high. That may be the bait to get you on board for the six months they need you. (I assume also the six months is guaranteed).

So one thing they can do is include a termination clause. You take the same salary fr the six months as in the permenant hire contract but you take the difference as a penalty payment and, since they are getting you cheap, you boost that.
That is, if they don't take up your contract at the end of the six months, they pay you $xk. $xk should be suitably more than the difference between the salary they were going to pay you and the permanent hire salary.
If they do take up your contract (and just to keep them honest and to make sure they didn't just do it to void the penalty clause on your short term contract) you impose a similar clause in your employment contract. This can be a diminishing value with a cut-off point.

The thing is, they will want to avoid actually paying out on these clauses. At that point, it doesn't matter whether they get new business or not because if they are going to let someone go, it won't be you. They'll say "to heck with it. We'll just sack someone else who won't cost us money."

At one company I worked for they made of the guys redundant (and we had some really generous terms so it cost them some anyway) but after about 6 months they asked him if he'd like to come back. Sure, he said, but I want a clause in my contract that says that if you make me redundant again within three years (or some similar period) you pay me the full redundancy as if I'd never left and a penalty amount of £Xk.
Well, they weren't planning on making him redundant again so they agreed and then they did make him redundant again and he left smiling. They had to make him redundant because the "make someone else redundant" option wouldn't work - they were having to make a lot of people redundant at the same time.

Don't ever accept the "standard contract terms" argument. Your employment contract can be as unique as you each agree it to be.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[cry22]

Turn it down period. These guys are crooks.

I too sent my resume to a company that did not bother even respond. about 18 months later, I was still in the market, I get this call from this guy who heard about me in the plane somewhere between san diego and Denver.
Ok I said, what's the scoop. Says we have a major lab project that needs a senior engineer. About 6 months to finish the project and their main guy quit.
Ok, what's the workload after 6 months? I ask, well this project requires a true senior guy that we will consider for am major position afterwards. they just would not answer the question about the work load no matter how I put it.
I wrote them and turned down the position, the CEO calls me and requests another interview (yeah they were desperate). So I mentioned to them that I have applied for the same position 18 months sooner and was not considered, they mumbled some vague answer.
I ask the same question about the work load again, still no definite answer, I asked for a company policy to read, lord and behold, it said that all engineers must work 10% overtime without pay. Needless to say, I did not bother to send a letter turning down the position this time around.

Ask for a company policy, a copy of their employee handbook, you will get a real good look at their intentions. And if they refuse to give you a copy. RUN.

 

[bernoullies123]

Go for it mate. I think me post is a bit late... if you can secure 6 months of work then you are quits in.

You are obviously not too keen on your current employer hence your post. You have an offer and have been in the game for at least 4 years as you have your P. Eng. (I believe) as you mention EIT.

Have a crack, you may enjoy your new post. Don't let that stable salary, insurance, etc. etc. get to your head as that is what the big companies want you to think, that it is the best thing since sliced bread. But rest assure they will knock you off in a heart beat, if required, when the profession turns belly up.

Have a go and enjoy.

In saying that... if you enjoy your current place, then sit tight and enjoy.

 

[TurbineGen]

I guess it goes without saying that you are unsatisfied at your current place?

One thing a friend of mine did that worked in this situation is to bring it up with his boss but did not tell him he had an offer. He simply stated that he was becoming dissatisfied with his workload (it had increased) and lack of what he felt was proper compensation.

This way you hold the cards. If your boss reacts poorly, you can jump ship (or stay as he's unlikely to try to get rid of you unless he's a complete jerk). If he reacts well, you just made your situation better and you should stay.

Just my $.02

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it. If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.

 

[dik]

If you made the initial overtures, why are you being hired through a recruiting company...

I'm not up with current hiring practices... but, why is a recruiting company even involved? They have a fee on top of what you would normally be paid.

Dik