New Methanol in non optimized engine

[vv12nuttter]

I came across this

http://emsh-ngtech.com/our-methanol

I would think this would be huge if they solved issues caused by Methanol in a non optimized ic engine.

Thoughts?

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'll let someone else field test it, thanks.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[vv12nuttter]

Fair enough.

If you had the means, how would you go about validating the tech?.

As in what tests would you need to conduct?

 

[MikeHalloran]

They seem to be claiming blanket compatibility with all possible metals and rubbers that might be present in any fuel system. I'd want to test each one specifically, and reasonable combinations.

If you want 'official' test procedures, I'd start at sae.org.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[swall]

The methanol advocates have been around for a while. When we had the debate about ethanol/gasahol in the '80's, the methanol people were right there claiming that their product was more practical and cheaper. And with today's cheap natural gas in the U.S. ,they may have a point.

 

[dgallup]

Contact us by mail or by phone
E.M.SH Ng-Tech

Address is temporarily unavailable
Tel hone number will be updated soon
Fax :Fax number will be updated soon

I'll pass.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[dicer]

Methanol? No matter what, its heat value is still way less than all the petro fuels.

And besides its time to quit believing the new age religions about carbon foot prints etc. and put blame where it should be solar activity.

 

[swall]

I always thought a good work around for the low BTU content of methanol was the process that Mobil developed using a catalyst to make gasoline from methanol. For some reason, it never caught on.

 

[patprimmer]

If all corrosion and seal problems with methanol as a flex fuel where solved, there is still the question of tank size and range and weight of a full tank that gives reasonable range.

There is also the toxicity problem and the invisible flame problem.

Net result must be the same CO2 to H2O ratio as methane. I really need to dig out some old books to figure out CO2 per mile travelled. Gut feeling tells me it's worse than methane but better than ethane.

Of course none of this covers manufacture and distribution and the footprint of creating the infrastructure or the impact of optimising the compression ratio.




Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Lou Scannon]

Methanol and ethanol are interesting niche fuels for high performance IC engines and environmental boondoggles, but have no non-subsidized commercial or environmental significance in a cradle-to-grave context, in any production models that have been implemented to date. That could change in the future, if the cost of producing fossil fuels rises to the point that self-contained ethanol and/or methanol production models become competitive. I don't predict that happening anytime soon.

 

[patprimmer]

I am selfishly happy if I can wrangle a subsidy on my fuel

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Lou Scannon]

And I don't blame you. I'm sometimes tempted, just for the performance benefit (full DIY tuning of course), even though it's a mug's game from an energy cost perspective, anywhere I've seen in North America.

 

[berkshire]

That's all I need, I am having enough trouble with tanks and hoses, metal corrosion, and water absorbtion with ethanol type fuels. without throwing methanol into the mix.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[swall]

Pat--what's the subsidy situation in Oz? Here in the U.S. the subsidy is gone, as is the import tariff.

 

[dgallup]

With the US subsidy recently gone but the EPA mandating "oxygenated" fuel (for what reason I don't know but that's another subject), is the recent jump in pump prices due to the elimination of the ethanol subsidy? US demand has not gone up, reserves are high & WTI crude hovering about $100+/-$3 for the last quarter I don't see any other reason.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[swall]

All interesting points, dgallup.The Congress mandated a certain figure for gallons of ethanol to be blended into gasoline each year. That is above and beyond any EPA clean air "oxygenated fuels" mandate. The mandate for oxygenates was regional; the madate for blend x billion gallons is national. Basically, nearly all gasoline, of all grades in the U.S. have ethanol. In theory, removal of the blending credit would cause a reduction in profits for the refiners/blenders. However, this possibly has been offset by the removal of the tariff on imported ethanol. So, theoretically, the blenders now have access to potentially cheaper supplies. Another way to look at things is that by blending ethanol into virtually all of the gasoline, the blenders are watering down the fuel with a cheaper product under the cover of the government blending mandate. One other item that could effect pump prices is the rise in exports of refined products. That gasoline in the past would have gone into storage and depressed prices. Another wild card is the fall of natural gas prices in the U.S. As gas is probably the most common fuel used for ethanol distillation and drying of the left over mash, this should cause a downward trend in ethanol prices. At this point I think the situation is still kind of squirrelly and needs some time before a clear trend on prices can be seen.

 

[patprimmer]

In Australia, there is no fuel tax on ethanol for fuel but there are substantial taxes on liquid hydrocarbon fuels. Gas hydrocarbons also get a tax break so per unit of energy it is about 1/2 the price of normal liquid hydrocarbon fuel. I don't actually know the price of ethanol not for human consumption but fuel containing it is cheaper at the pump, but only just enough to offset the lower energy content.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Lou Scannon]

I don't actually know the price of ethanol not for human consumption but fuel containing it is cheaper at the pump, but only just enough to offset the lower energy content.

How astonishing. What are the odds that it actually costs that much to deliver to the nozzle, with the same profit margin as fossil fuel? ;-)

 

[patprimmer]

Well the pointy haired boss will say cost is irrelevant Pricing is set at what the market will bear. Cost only becomes relevant if it exceeds what the market will bear.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[pontiacjack]

The claims for the additive (eliminate metals corrosion and elastomer deterioration) certainly pique my interest.

But I don't get a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about the firm- nothing geographic in the 'contact info'; surnames of the firm's principals sounding quite "foreign"; and a price chart showing U.S. methanol at $1.269/gal. (it cost me much more than that twelve years ago to buy in fifty gallon drums).