New natural gas plants are out of favor due to batteries 1

[GregLocock]

This astonishes me, but here we go

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/giant-batteries-drain-economics-gas-power-plants-2023-11-21/

TLDR gas plants used to operate as baseload, currently 40% they estimate 11-15% as lithium batteries drop in price.

The example given replacing a $1B gas plant (presumably 1 GW) by a battery at $151/kWh, 6.6GWh, doesn't fill me with much confidence in this analysis, yes it'll keep the lights on overnight in summer when the nights are short, but won't be much help in winter.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[JoshPlumSE]

Though in the winter, people aren't running their Air Conditioners and their Refrigerators / Freezers presumably use less energy.

That being said, I highly doubt their "analysis". This would take a MASSIVE investment in batteries. I saw a video a few weeks ago a utility company executive testified about how insanely expensive it would be to power the grid with batteries.....

Of course, none of the normal search engines can find this video. All I get are advertisements / propaganda videos for how great solar and batteries are for powering your homme. Maybe I'll see if I can find it with DuckDuckGo. Google genuinely 'shadow bans' any video with a conservative bent. You have to be VERY specific with your search for Google to find videos like this..... jeez!

 

[rb1957]

I thought the UK's plan relied on NG plants for some time into the future.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[TugboatEng]

"Though in the winter, people aren't running their Air Conditioners and their Refrigerators / Freezers presumably use less energy."

Maybe, but many regions are outlawing the sale of new gas heater, water heaters, and stoves...

 

[Tmoose]

Banning gas appliances.

Not too surprising at least one US politician seems more interested in talking the talk than walking the walk.

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxn...ds/2023/11/720/405/kamala-stove.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

 

[SnTMan]

Oh, more than just the one, I assure you

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[TugboatEng]

Gas appliances are already banned for new construction in a few of my neighboring cities.

Water heaters are likely going to be required to have heat pumps soon.

All of the refrigerants required to run these heat pumps are scheduled to be banned already...

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason for banning gas appliances isn't related to CO2 emissions. But, it's due to the fact that methane (and other natural gasses) that leak into the atmosphere have way more of a "green house" effect than CO2 (per particle). Right?

 

[TugboatEng]

I don't know if it was ever marketed that way. CO2 carries much more emotional weight. The second onjection was related to indoor pollutants. Natural gas does have trace amounts of some other nasty chemicals.